DID PAUL CHANGE SCRIPTURE?
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14-01-2014, 05:02 PM
DID PAUL CHANGE SCRIPTURE?
In (Heb 10:5-6) Why does paul add "but a body thou hast prepared for me" why doe he add words to the text in (psa 40:6). Dont add words to make it fit jesus. Agnia in hebrew means ears, not body. Even the Wistminster Leningrad Codex, which has the Hebrew words, does not feature the words for "body" or "prepared" in this verse. The reason you haven't found "a body you have prepared for me" in the Torah is because that was another edit by Paul. Psalms 40:6 reads "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but my ears you have opened for me" ( this is from the NIV!). King David is saying he would bring offerings, but they are not as important to G-D as opening one's ears and listening to His commandments!
Quite simply: "oznayim" in Hebrew is the plural form of the word "ear." "Karisa" is the root word "kaf-raysh," which means "excavate; dig" (as also found in Genesis 50:5: "Bury me in the tomb I dug [karisi] for myself in the land of Canaan") with the suffix denoting 2nd person, past tense. Why the change?
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14-01-2014, 06:47 PM
RE: DID PAUL CHANGE SCRIPTURE?
Quote:DID PAUL CHANGE SCRIPTURE?

WHY ARE WE SHOUTING?!?!

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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14-01-2014, 06:56 PM
RE: DID PAUL CHANGE SCRIPTURE?
Yes. He changed all sorts of stuff.
He even interpreted the OT verses of Jeremiah 1:5 ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.") as referring to HIMSELF. He was nuts.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...other-look

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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14-01-2014, 08:19 PM
RE: DID PAUL CHANGE SCRIPTURE?
Anyone with even the remotest basic understanding of Christian history, which, sadly, excludes about 99% of Christians and Christian apologists, knows that it was Paul's understandings/interpretations of who he thought Jesus was that became the basis of Christianity; not what Jesus actually taught. As Professor Erhman is fond of saying, "it became a religion about Jesus, not of Jesus."

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15-01-2014, 03:08 AM (This post was last modified: 15-01-2014 03:24 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: DID PAUL CHANGE SCRIPTURE?
I don't think this is a single reputable scholar out there who actually thinks "Paul" wrote Hebrews.

As buckyball so expertly points out, there were many "Pauls"

One might assume that Paul had a legitimate and verifiable source for his hypotheses, but he didn’t. I’ve imagined going back in time to ask him what he thought it was. He got anxious when his credibility was questioned, so his answer would be intense. He frequently wrote at length about himself, so he’d probably tell me how hard he works, how genuine he is, how he’s suffered for his beliefs, and how sure he is that what he preaches is the truth. The actual answer to the question would be a long time arriving.

Paul wrote,
“The fact is, brothers, and I want you to realize this, the Good News I preached is not a human message that I was given by men, it is something I learned only through a revelation of Jesus Christ. You must have heard of my career as a practicing Jew, how merciless I was in persecuting the Church of God, how much damage I did to it, how I stood out among other Jews of my generation, and how enthusiastic I was for the traditions of my ancestors. Then God, who had specifically chosen me while I was still in my mother's womb, called me through his grace and chose to reveal his son in me, so that I may preach the Good News about him to the pagans” (Gal. 1:11–24, NJB.) This is from one of his best-known letters. He specifically stated that the message he preached came not from human sources, but from God, “through a revelation of Jesus Christ.”

This was not the only occasion he said God inspired him;
“I, Paul, appointed by God to be an apostle” (1 Cor. 1:1, NJB) and
“But our sufficiency is from God” (2 Cor. 3:5 NKJB.)

What he meant was that he thought he had a God given talent enabling him to interpret scripture. That was, after all, the job description for a Pharisee. He bragged that his God, a character he thought he had a special relationship with, was the source of his “Good News.” That may have impressed naïve people two thousand years ago, but today we can read any number of over imaginative accounts from people who also claim, without evidence, that they’ve talked to God. Some of them are mentally unwell. Paul had no more credibility than them.

Paul took things one step further than his more traditional colleagues when interpreting scripture. He thought he alone had a divine mandate from God. Consider the opening lines of his letter to the Romans:
“From Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus who has been called to be an apostle, and specially chosen to preach the Good News that God promised long ago through his prophets in the scriptures” (Rom. 1:1–3, NJB.) He promoted himself as a uniquely special interpreter of scripture, and he bad-mouthed anyone who happened to disagree with him (see 1 Corinthians 15:1–3, http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...sion=KJV).

Yet Jewish scholars are adamant that Paul’s “good news” isn’t in scripture. (http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articl...f-tarsus). Moreover, Paul often changed the meaning of scripture to suit himself. For example, he wrote,
“so that all beings in the heavens, on earth and in the underworld, should bend the knee at the name of Jesus and that every tongue should acclaim Jesus Christ as Lord to the glory of the Father” (Phil. 2:10–11, NJB.) The source of this was
“Before me every knee shall bend, by me every tongue shall swear, saying ‘From Yahweh alone come victory and strength.’” (Isa. 45:23–24, NJB.) Paul replaced Yahweh with Christ, to fit with his own manufactured theology. One of Paul’s main themes was that Gentiles could be God’s special people too. He wrote,
“Well, we are those people; whether we were Jews or pagans we are the ones he has called. That is exactly what God says in Hosea: ‘I shall say to a people that was not mine, ‘you are my people,’ and to a nation I never loved ‘I love you’” (Rom. 9:24, NJB.) However a reading of chapters one and two of Hosea (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...rsion=KJV) reveals that “God” wasn’t referring to Gentiles, but Jews whom he was accepting back under his wing after a misdemeanor. Paul changed the meaning of scripture to sell his own story to Gentiles living in Rome.

Just why “God” would need to talk to Paul via “a revelation of Jesus Christ,” when Jesus could speak for himself, is never explained in today’s Christian circles.
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15-01-2014, 03:19 AM
RE: DID PAUL CHANGE SCRIPTURE?
(14-01-2014 06:47 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
Quote:DID PAUL CHANGE SCRIPTURE?

WHY ARE WE SHOUTING?!?!

CAPS LOCKS IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOLNESS!

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15-01-2014, 07:40 AM
RE: DID PAUL CHANGE SCRIPTURE?
(15-01-2014 03:19 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(14-01-2014 06:47 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  WHY ARE WE SHOUTING?!?!

CAPS LOCKS IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOLNESS!

ONLY FOR THREAD TITLES! PEOPLE WHO DO IT INSIDE OF THREADS ARE STUPID!


Shit.
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15-01-2014, 07:43 AM
RE: DID PAUL CHANGE SCRIPTURE?
(14-01-2014 06:47 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
Quote:DID PAUL CHANGE SCRIPTURE?

WHY ARE WE SHOUTING?!?!

wHy DO U think THAts SHouTiNG... its not. Where did u learn that? Thats why we have these.... @$!÷#%\*×... education is golden..!!
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15-01-2014, 07:45 AM
RE: DID PAUL CHANGE SCRIPTURE?
(14-01-2014 05:02 PM)truthBtold Wrote:  Why the change?

My understanding it that various bits of the NT (and OT) were changed repeatedly over time to try and gain a more consistent doctrine*.

This makes sense when you figure all of the gospels and epistles that were combed over and hand picked to make the "official" canonical Bible. I remember Richard Carrier talking about parts where the a word was changed from something like "begotten" or "made" into "born". This is part of his whole mythicism stance, that the Bible was later retconned to make Paul talk about Jesus as being a physical person.


* This is actually pretty weird to think about. Given how all-over-the-place the Bible is, I can't imagine how bad it was before the stealth edits.
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15-01-2014, 08:28 AM
RE: DID PAUL CHANGE SCRIPTURE?
"With the advent of the Bulletin board system, or BBS, and later the Internet, typing messages in all caps became closely identified with "shouting" or attention-seeking behavior, and is considered very rude. As a result, netiquette generally discourages the use of all caps when posting messages online. While all caps can be used as an alternative to rich-text "bolding" for a single word or phrase, to express emphasis, repeated use of all caps can be considered "shouting" or irritating."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_caps

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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