DUNE question. Am I understanding Paul correctly?
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21-10-2012, 01:09 AM
Question DUNE question. Am I understanding Paul correctly?
I'm currently on Frank Herberts God Emperor of Dune (4th book).

The recap as I understand it:

Dune I
-Paul seeks revenge.
-Paul acquires an army (Fremen) to carry out said revenge.
-Paul is able to see the future (prescience).
-If Paul uses the army, it will unleash an intergalactic Jihad.
-Paul takes the risk, thinking he can curb it.

Dune II
-Paul is firmly heading said Jihad.
-Paul presents himself as a living demigod.
-Paul freely admits that tens of billions of people have been killed, several planets are destroyed, several religions have been murdered into extinction.

QUESTION: Is the reader to believe that Paul is actually curbing the Jihad, and if he didn't, it would have killed MORE people, and destroyed MORE planets?

He's setting himself up as a living God, or demigod, building palaces, and murdering Tens of Billions. At no point was there anything to hint that he was choosing the lesser of two evils. He was trying to curb a Jihad in the first book, and yet he's heading a devastating one, willy nilly, in the second book.
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21-10-2012, 01:14 AM
RE: DUNE question. Am I understanding Paul correctly?
I can understand Pauls son, Leto II a bit better. He too has prescience, able to see the future. And much further and clearer than Paul.

He's setting up millennia long brutal dictatorial rule, setting himself up as a literal God, and yet he can get away with killing as many people as he likes because it's all in a calculated effort to prevent the extinction of all humanity. Essentially, "What's billions of people dying or suffering for a few thousand years if it ultimately prevents the extinction of humanity."
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21-10-2012, 01:15 AM
RE: DUNE question. Am I understanding Paul correctly?
I think his prescience also extended to actions of his son.

Read on MacDuff, all with be revealed.

I read these books around 20 years ago. Maybe it's time to buy them again.
They should be compulsory reading for Theists.

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05-11-2012, 06:40 PM
RE: DUNE question. Am I understanding Paul correctly?
That's not a terribly helpful response.

I finished God Emperor some time ago, and the questions posed still remain. There's a flaw that I see, which is that we have to go by the authors word that there were no other choices available for the main characters.

Paul and Leto II are characters that are able to see the future (more precisely, complex biological computers that can calculate the future which is almost indistinguishable from magic). We are told they chose the most humane paths, but these paths results in billions dead, theocratic dictatorships, etc. We're just left to think that any other course would have led to more death or human extinction.

But the author should have had the characters talk out, in some detail, some of the more sensible or alternative paths and reasons out in detail how it would have failed utterly. At least then the reader can get a sense that what the characters are doing is right.

God Emperor was a bit dull, interesting, but dull. I'll be moving onto the sixth book much later.
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05-11-2012, 06:49 PM
RE: DUNE question. Am I understanding Paul correctly?
There ain't no future. Paul's marketers told a good story. Story's over. Big Grin

There was comfort and stagnation with Shaddam IV, pain and growth with Paul. You know, either/ or, but Shaddam's story is boring. We can't be bored. Bad things happen. Angry

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06-08-2013, 11:45 PM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2013 12:48 AM by PoolBoyG.)
RE: DUNE question. Am I understanding Paul correctly?
I finished Heretics of Dune, the fifth Dune book. I'm about to start Chapterhouse Dune.

So, I did a little research to further try to answer my initial question. There was some fan post that the extinction of humanity was due to Ixian hunter seekers run amok - tiny autonomous drones that can kill people with deadly efficiency. I don't remember any suggestion in the books about that being the threat.

Besides, the God Emperor could have just just nuked the Ixian homeworld or murdered every single Ixian if that was the case. Instead of ruling the galaxy for thousands of years in a harsh dictatorship. Granted he needed the Ixians to build the "no-ships" - massive spaceships that are untraceable to send humanity further out in the galaxy, under cover. But if the extinction was prevented, why would he still need to send people outward?
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07-08-2013, 12:14 AM
RE: DUNE question. Am I understanding Paul correctly?
(06-08-2013 11:45 PM)PoolBoyG Wrote:  I finished Heretics of Dune, the fourth Dune book. I'm about to start Chapterhouse Dune.

So, I did a little research to further try to answer my initial question. There was some fan post that the extinction of humanity was due to Ixian hunter seekers run amok - tiny autonomous drones that can kill people with deadly efficiency. I don't remember any suggestion in the books about that being the threat.

Besides, the God Emperor could have just just nuked the Ixian homeworld or murdered every single Ixian if that was the case. Instead of ruling the galaxy for thousands of years in a harsh dictatorship. Granted he needed the Ixians to build the "no-ships" - massive spaceships that are untraceable to send humanity further out in the galaxy, under cover. But if the extinction was prevented, why would he still need to send people outward?

You need to read all the prequels now to fully get the story.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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07-08-2013, 12:21 AM
RE: DUNE question. Am I understanding Paul correctly?
Ooo, I'm just starting these books on account of the fear concept, my sister reco'ed.

Quote:I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
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07-08-2013, 12:43 AM
RE: DUNE question. Am I understanding Paul correctly?
(07-08-2013 12:14 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  You need to read all the prequels now to fully get the story.

Nah. I'm drawing a line with this last one. If it's not written by the author, i'm out. Anything else just seems like fanfiction for me.

Quote:Ooo, I'm just starting these books on account of the fear concept, my sister reco'ed.

I'd recommend it. So far Dune and God Emperor were my top favourites. There's not much about "fear" other than that mantra. It's just essentially a small reminder to keep calm and think logically.
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07-08-2013, 01:42 AM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2013 01:45 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: DUNE question. Am I understanding Paul correctly?
I read Dune when I was in grade school. I liked the fat guy who floats in air. That's all I remember. I thought it would be cool to surf on big sand worms. Oh, his mom was sorta cool. Wasn't her name Helen ? Helpful, aren't I ? Weeping

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Yeah, for verily I say unto thee, and this we know : Jebus no likey that which doth tickle thee unto thy nether regions.

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