Darwin's Doubt, by Stephen Meyer
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09-01-2015, 03:35 PM
Darwin's Doubt, by Stephen Meyer
I recently stumbled across a page on facebook for Dr. Stephen Meyer (not a personal page apparently but a page to discuss his book "Darwin's Doubt"). I don't remember if I have discussed it any length on TTA before, but I'll reiterate it here.

I first saw the book in Barnes and Noble a little over a year ago, it was on an endcap labeled as "Popular in the Media" or some such title. From a distance I was drawn to it because of its large picture of a trilobite in a tan colored shale, and I thought it looked like a good piece of science from a distance, boy was I pissed when I got closer. I'll elaborate in a bit.

The facebook page I stumbled across had a post criticizing the permanent placement of the book in the stores, it was in the "Christian" section and the Creationists want it with science. I put in my two cents, which were quickly refuted as hogwash by the creationists on the page, who ultimately bowed out after I continued to question them.

Now, why is this book not science? Most of us on here probably already understand that ID isn't science, so this may seem obvious. But there were 3 other great signs, obvious ones upon closer inspection, that demonstrate the shear idiocy of this book.

First, was one of the reviews on the back....by Dean Koontz. Yeah, this guy, because when I think of someone who is qualified to talk about what is and isn't science, I think of Dean fucking Koontz and all of his shitty fiction.

The second piece of evidence was another reviewer, Mark McMenamin. I think I might have griped about this guy on TTA before. He is an actual paleontologist who teaches at Mount Holyoke. It would seem at a first pass that his endorsement adds an air of legitimacy to the book, but not if you know anything about ol' Mark. He has given talks and written papers (that if published are done so in fringe journals) on such illustrious topics as mind control in the rock record through telepathically-linked worms (that weren't even fossils), evidence of alien visitation in the rock record (circular features because nothing screams "aliens" like fucking circles), canabalistic trilobites (agnostid trilobites that apparently ripped each other apart, despite lacking appendages for ripping or any real mouth), and a Giant Kraken from the Mesozoic that apparently made murals of itself using bones from Giant Ichthyosaurs (no evidence of the kraken or a mural, just bones piled up together). This guy is the butt of many a joke in the paleo community, and a constant thorn in its side too because some people (even in the science media) have given him national attention because they don't understand that his "science" is complete bullshit.

The third, and most important line of evidence, piece to demonstrate just how stupid this book is, is the author, Dr. Stephen Meyer. Who really has a PhD and it's even from Cambridge, the good one. What is not made clear however (and this was a big topic the facebook page creationists kept bringing up) is what his PhD is in, because he clearly makes it sound like it is in science, but it is a history of science degree. So...it is a history degree. Of course, they still think that his dissertation must be about proving ID, but it isn't. It is a history dissertation on the subject of the arguments for life's origins.

The Creationists (now under the title of "Proponents of ID") want to try and make a few things clear.
1) They want it to be science, but they don't believe that ID makes a claim to know who or what the intelligence is. Which is a pretty big deal because if you can't demonstrate the existence of your mechanism, you can't demonstrate the feasibility of your mechanism (just try and make sense of gravity without anyone ever having tried to identify what generates gravity). So, it is fundamentally not science because it can't propose a mechanism with evidence of its existence.

2) They want badly for it to not be considered religion. This is why they claim ID makes no claim about the existence of the intelligence behind it (which they fail to realize immediately removes it from consideration as science).

3) They are determined to make you believe that not only are their different types of information out there, but one must be sourced from intelligence but the other isn't. They fail to realize 2 things here, one is that they are admitting that there are aspects of our universe that, by their own definitions, demonstrate non-intelligence and secondly, they fail to realize that in order to demonstrate that a piece of information was sourced from an intelligence, you need to be able to demonstrate the intelligence exists (see point 1).




The whole thing is nonsensical and irrational. Which seems to be further evidence that it must be religious in nature.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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09-01-2015, 03:39 PM
RE: Darwin's Doubt, by Stephen Meyer
I found my life a whole lot more happier when I closed out such insane voices.

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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09-01-2015, 03:40 PM
RE: Darwin's Doubt, by Stephen Meyer
(09-01-2015 03:39 PM)gofish! Wrote:  I found my life a whole lot more happier when I closed out such insane voices.

A whole lot happier, but a whole lot less truthful.

Truth seeker.
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09-01-2015, 03:40 PM
RE: Darwin's Doubt, by Stephen Meyer
(09-01-2015 03:39 PM)gofish! Wrote:  I found my life a whole lot more happier when I closed out such insane voices.

Sometimes I like to poke into the insanity and irrationality a bit. Not enough to want it constantly streaming on my newsfeed. I unfollow the dumbasses that post mindless drivel.

Which, as it turns out, is most of what my newsfeed was.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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09-01-2015, 03:45 PM
RE: Darwin's Doubt, by Stephen Meyer
(09-01-2015 03:40 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(09-01-2015 03:39 PM)gofish! Wrote:  I found my life a whole lot more happier when I closed out such insane voices.

A whole lot happier, but a whole lot less truthful.

Just fuck off, dildo...

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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09-01-2015, 03:47 PM
RE: Darwin's Doubt, by Stephen Meyer
(09-01-2015 03:40 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(09-01-2015 03:39 PM)gofish! Wrote:  I found my life a whole lot more happier when I closed out such insane voices.

A whole lot happier, but a whole lot less truthful.

I love this statement, it really highlights the issue of religion.

The notion that tuning-out insanity, is the same as tuning-out religious "truth" is a perfect representation for the nonsense of religion.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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09-01-2015, 04:17 PM
RE: Darwin's Doubt, by Stephen Meyer
My son's youth leader at his church was pushing this book big time to all the high school aged kids. What a dishonest move to try and keep evolution and science from being objectively evaluated or accepted by kids in the church. Luckily I sense that my son is pulling away from this crap and now calls the youth leader he once liked a close minded and arrogant person. Yeah!

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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09-01-2015, 04:28 PM
RE: Darwin's Doubt, by Stephen Meyer
(09-01-2015 03:40 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(09-01-2015 03:39 PM)gofish! Wrote:  I found my life a whole lot more happier when I closed out such insane voices.

A whole lot happier, but a whole lot less truthful.

Seeing as evolution has a mountain of evidence showing it to be true I suggest that you need to realize gofish is a lot more truthful.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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09-01-2015, 06:28 PM
RE: Darwin's Doubt, by Stephen Meyer
(09-01-2015 03:40 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(09-01-2015 03:39 PM)gofish! Wrote:  I found my life a whole lot more happier when I closed out such insane voices.

A whole lot happier, but a whole lot less truthful.

So you CLAIM, dear. Now you get to, IN DEPTH, explain, exactly what you mean, and how EXACTLY "ID" is a valid anything.

Come on Diddles. Give it a go.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-01-2015, 08:12 PM
RE: Darwin's Doubt, by Stephen Meyer
(09-01-2015 03:35 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  because nothing screams "aliens" like fucking circles

This statement is hilariously accurate when read literally.

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Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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