Darwin's deathbed confession
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05-06-2011, 09:58 PM
RE: Darwin's deathbed confession
The whole deathbed conversion thing is a joke. It's like asking someone who is coma-drunk to drive a car or tell you whether they accept an idea or not. It's a desperate attempt to justify your own views by exploiting people who can no longer defend themselves. This is just shameful.

Or as someone once put it , make someone constipated for a week and they will pray to any god.

Also , here's the AA's take on it :




Atheism is a religion like OFF is a TV channel !!!

Proud of my genetic relatives Big Grin
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05-06-2011, 10:45 PM
RE: Darwin's deathbed confession
I can imagine Darwin converting on his deathbed. I can even Imagine Darwin still believing in God in his life. Peer pressure is a strong thing. I don't see how that has anything to do with evolution being wrong or correct. I's an argument of authority. An argument like that is non sequitur.

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Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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06-06-2011, 03:15 AM
RE: Darwin's deathbed confession
This fallacy that Darwin was a "life long atheist" who converted only on his deathbed ignores the fact that Darwin studied theology in university, not science. His interest in scientific study was a hobby that he pursued whole-heartedly, especially when he was able to get on a ship headed to the Galapagos Islands, where the evidence he saw with his own eyes led him to conclude that life evolved on earth, and was not created whole as was previously believed. Considering his education, he must have been 100% convinced that he was correct in his heretical discovery to have published it, knowing the history of how other heretics before him had been treated by the Church and society. The idea that a man with a degree in theology had so profoundly proven all of his previous beliefs wrong through the study of scientific evidence would then dismiss all that evidence and suddenly revert to faith in God is nonsense.

The way to see by Faith, is to shut the eye of Reason. - Ben Franklin
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18-10-2011, 12:32 PM
 
RE: Darwin's deathbed confession
What about this then!
“This quote is from ‘Journal of Researches,’ and was written by Charles Darwin when he arrived back in England in the "Beagle" after having visited New Zealand.
From pages 414, 425, and 505:
About his fellow atheists, he wrote:...
“They forget, or will not remember, that human sacrifices and the power of an idolatrous priesthood — a system of profligacy unparalleled in another part of the world — infanticide, a consequent of that system — bloody wars, where conquerors spared neither women nor children — that all these have been abolished; and that dishonesty, intemperance, and licentiousness have been greatly reduced by Christianity. In a voyager to forget these things is base ingratitude; for should he chance to be at the point of shipwreck on some unknown coast, he will most devoutly pray that the lesson of the missionary may have reached thus far.’
“The lesson of the missionary is the enchanter’s wand. The house has been built, the widows framed, the fields ploughed, and even the trees grafted by the New Zealander."
“The march of improvement, consequent on the introduction of Christianity throughout the south Seas, probably stands by itself in the records of history.”
Why did an avowed unbeliever write in defence of Christian missions after having expressed his belief that they would utterly fail? --Because he saw in person the indisputable evidence that his theory was wrong, and he had the honesty and manhood to confess his mistake.
THIS SURELY GIVES SOME POSSIBLE CREDENCE TO HIS ALLEGED CONVERSION, WHENEVER THAT MIGHT HAVE TAKEN PLACE!!
You can find a copy of the original document at: http://www.archive.org/details/journalof...00darwuoft
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19-10-2011, 05:51 AM
RE: Darwin's deathbed confession
(18-10-2011 12:32 PM)Rodav Wrote:  What about this then!
“This quote is from ‘Journal of Researches,’ and was written by Charles Darwin when he arrived back in England in the "Beagle" after having visited New Zealand.
From pages 414, 425, and 505:
About his fellow atheists, he wrote:...
“They forget, or will not remember, that human sacrifices and the power of an idolatrous priesthood — a system of profligacy unparalleled in another part of the world — infanticide, a consequent of that system — bloody wars, where conquerors spared neither women nor children — that all these have been abolished; and that dishonesty, intemperance, and licentiousness have been greatly reduced by Christianity. In a voyager to forget these things is base ingratitude; for should he chance to be at the point of shipwreck on some unknown coast, he will most devoutly pray that the lesson of the missionary may have reached thus far.’
“The lesson of the missionary is the enchanter’s wand. The house has been built, the widows framed, the fields ploughed, and even the trees grafted by the New Zealander."
“The march of improvement, consequent on the introduction of Christianity throughout the south Seas, probably stands by itself in the records of history.”
Why did an avowed unbeliever write in defence of Christian missions after having expressed his belief that they would utterly fail? --Because he saw in person the indisputable evidence that his theory was wrong, and he had the honesty and manhood to confess his mistake.
THIS SURELY GIVES SOME POSSIBLE CREDENCE TO HIS ALLEGED CONVERSION, WHENEVER THAT MIGHT HAVE TAKEN PLACE!!
You can find a copy of the original document at: http://www.archive.org/details/journalof...00darwuoft

So which part of those that quote does darwin say "you know what my theory of evolution is wrong"?. All that is said there is he can see some of the good christianity is doing. Nothing more.

If that is your idea of proof that his theory of evolution is wrong then you are really grasping at straws.

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19-10-2011, 05:56 AM
RE: Darwin's deathbed confession
This is why I seldom debate with creationists, they have no honor, no honesty and no morals.

And, of course, even if some dying guy says something about evolution, that doesn't mean it's invalidated.
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19-10-2011, 07:28 AM (This post was last modified: 20-10-2011 12:21 PM by TheBeardedDude.)
RE: Darwin's deathbed confession
After Darwin arrived back from the Beagle he had not yet developed the Theory of Evolution anyways. It was a few decades before he actually began to produce it and even longer before it was published. Darwin was a believer in Natural Theology at the time of his voyage and as he finished his voyage he had began to make observations about the fallacies of that world view. After a few years of mulling it over back at home, Darwin eventually formulated his theory of descent with modification by means of natural selection. The fact that Darwin studied theology at a university prior to his travels and that he was most likely still a believer when he got back is irrelevant to his formation of the theory. Even if he remained a christian throughout his life, he did not recant any statement about the theory being incorrect and creationism being right. It should be remembered that there were three friends of Darwin's who lived after him and helped him develop this theory. Alfred Russell Wallace, Thomas Henry Huxley and Robert Hooker all helped Darwin with his theory in different ways and continued to advocate for Darwin after his death. Irregardless of Darwin's religious belief, his theory was and is still sound.

The story of his deathbed conversion is still bullshit though.

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19-10-2011, 08:05 AM (This post was last modified: 19-10-2011 08:12 AM by Peterkin.)
RE: Darwin's deathbed confession
This is the most malicious part:
"Isn't it wonderful? Darwin spent his whole life fighting against creation, then at the last moment he read the Bible and believed."

Poor guy never fought against anything. He just quietly worked away at his research, making sure it was all accurately observed and recorded, comparing his findings with the work of other scientists. He probably knew the bible better, starting out, than the writer of this calumny ever did. He refrained from public declarations, and even from publishing (in a competitive field, where he would have made a big splash!) partly in deference to his father's and wife's religious sensibilities, and partly to be certain that what he wrote was unassailable.
It is.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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19-10-2011, 08:11 AM
RE: Darwin's deathbed confession
Thanks for a 4 month necro...

Anyways, I really don't see what a conversion proves other than the fact that the brainwashing of religions is stronger than people give it credit for. All it proves is that the indoctrination as a child still has an effect on people when they are withering away.

In my honest opinion this does nothing but bring up the statement that you would have to be incredibly ill and on the brink of death to accept these myths. Says a lot about your religions doesn't it.

"We Humans are capable of greatness." -Carl Sagan
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19-10-2011, 09:54 AM
RE: Darwin's deathbed confession
Darwin never "worked all his life" on his theory - that statement alone is preposterous. Darwin in fact, struggled with his own observations in light of his faith. His work came very close to not even being published, because he felt that if his wife was unable to reconcile her own belief with his findings, he vowed to not jeopardize their relationship. Aside from initial outline and reference material, Emma was the first person to read the completed work, and it was only with her absolute approval that, On the Origin of Species, would ever be published in their lifetime.
His last words were to his family, telling Emma "I am not the least afraid of death – Remember what a good wife you have been to me – Tell all my children to remember how good they have been to me", then while she rested, he repeatedly told his children Henrietta and Francis, "It's almost worth while to be sick to be nursed by you".
Darwin's "deathbed confession" rumor is yet another intimate, vulnerable moment of the human condition preyed upon by vultures, scavenging and mangling a life to fit and feed into some scripted agenda.

There is a very good mainstream 2009 film which depicts this family's struggle: Creation It stars Paul Bettany & Jennifer Connelly who are actually married in real life... which I didn't know until after I saw the film. Fantastic actors - I thought the whole film was very well done.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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