Dat Noah Flood
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27-02-2015, 08:39 AM (This post was last modified: 27-02-2015 08:42 AM by Hafnof.)
RE: Dat Noah Flood
Here is a quick summary of the evolution of western thinking on the flood.




This is the follow-up video on radiometric dating:



Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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27-02-2015, 09:12 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(27-02-2015 08:12 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The biggest single bit of evidence that "Noah's Ark" could not have existed is it's very description in the KJV bible....

300 cubits long (137.16 m, 450 ft), 50 wide (22.86 m, 75 ft), and 30 high (13.716 m, 45 ft).

That's a small ship by today's standards.

"Two of every animal" simply would not fit on a boat that small. Not even if you dehydrated them.

....

You're a moron to think kiddie stories are true.

Wouldn't even have been sea worthy, let alone fit the animals in, least of their worries for those that posit the flood/ark happened.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid674871

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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27-02-2015, 10:24 AM (This post was last modified: 27-02-2015 10:32 AM by ghostexorcist.)
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(27-02-2015 09:12 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Wouldn't even have been sea worthy, let alone fit the animals in, least of their worries for those that posit the flood/ark happened.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid674871

(29-10-2014 08:28 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Would it have been possible to find enough material to build Noah's Ark? When another early supership was built, the Great Michael (completed in Scotland in 1511) it was said to have consumed "all the woods of Fife". Fife was a county in Scotland famous for its shipbuilding. The Great Michael's timber had to be purchased and imported not only from other parts of Scotland, but also from France, the Baltic Sea, and from a large number of cargo ships from Norway. Yet at 73 meters, she was only about half the length of Noah's Ark. Clearly a ship twice the length of the Great Michael, and larger in all other dimensions, would have required many times as much timber. It's never been clearly stated exactly where Noah's Ark is said to have been built, but it would have been somewhere in Mesopotamia, probably along either the Tigris or Euphrates rivers. This area is now Iraq, which has never been known for its abundance of shipbuilding timber.

Nice write up. I've read up on middle eastern ship building, and a lot of the wood for the various dhows active in the Indian Ocean had to be imported from India.
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27-02-2015, 10:27 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(27-02-2015 10:24 AM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  
(27-02-2015 09:12 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Wouldn't even have been sea worthy, let alone fit the animals in, least of their worries for those that posit the flood/ark happened.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid674871

Nice write up. I've read up on middle eastern ship building, and a lot of the wood for the various dhows active in the Indian Ocean had to be imported from India.

You guys keep forgetting that gopher wood is magic. That explains everything.

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27-02-2015, 10:33 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(27-02-2015 10:27 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(27-02-2015 10:24 AM)ghostexorcist Wrote:  Nice write up. I've read up on middle eastern ship building, and a lot of the wood for the various dhows active in the Indian Ocean had to be imported from India.

You guys keep forgetting that gopher wood is magic. That explains everything.

It makes so much sense now!
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27-02-2015, 10:55 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(26-02-2015 11:45 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(26-02-2015 11:32 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  1. The West accepts the Flood story and is a religious culture.

Citation? I would love to know the real percentage of people in the West who actually think this is true.

(26-02-2015 11:32 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  2. The West moves toward enlightenment and toward science that says it must stay away from the scriptures as reliable.

The scriptures show that they are unreliable on their own, science doesn't have to say anything about it. Science also does not care about the scriptures because the claims are not testable, predict nothing, and are useless in that sense.

(26-02-2015 11:32 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  3. The Flood story is derided as myth.

There is literally NO physical evidence that supports the claim, therefore, it is reasonable that it is not true. If you have evidence, please present it. And your previous posts about the water are pretty bad.

(26-02-2015 11:32 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  4. One of the less religious scientists of his day sees evidence of erosion and upheavals and looking at the data, concludes ice covered all or nearly all of the planet.

Reference please.

(26-02-2015 11:32 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  5. Christian academics and scientists account for anomalies in the slow-moving water (ice) theories with revisiting the scriptures and looking at the data, both in the scriptures and science. In the NT, for example, the Flood is described not as mere rain but as a catastrophe causing tremendous upheaval, a shaking of the planet.

Reference please. Also, I nave never heard or read of any geologist who would agree. But since you are going to provide your references we can see what you are talking about. I await eagerly to be convinced. So far, you have not presented anything tangible that can be evaluated. Please continuuuuuuu on.

My post is an arc of history. I cite that formerly many in the West believed in the Flood, and then came modern science.

However, my post stands. I have zero need to cite evidence as to why people believe in an ice age, and I think you are being disingenuous in claiming to be ignorant of the geology involved. If you do not know at least some of the claims involved with saying there were certainly ice ages, then please don't fight with me when I point out that the moving ice and melting ice that scientists can "see" is also evidence for tremendous amounts of water involved in geologic formations, relative salinity of bodies of water, fossil records, etc.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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27-02-2015, 10:57 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(26-02-2015 12:22 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(26-02-2015 11:32 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  5. Christian academics and scientists account for anomalies in the slow-moving water (ice) theories with revisiting the scriptures and looking at the data, both in the scriptures and science. In the NT, for example, the Flood is described not as mere rain but as a catastrophe causing tremendous upheaval, a shaking of the planet.

Common ground.

So, taken in context with what you said in the cave thread:

(26-02-2015 11:38 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I believe every word of the Bible is literal and true where it plainly speaks literally, not poetically. Hebrew scholars have said that "son of" can also indicate "notable descendant" as in "a true son of Scotland wouldn't drink" Wink or "Jesus, Son of David" since there are 27 generations between Jesus and David!

...are you saying that the Genesis account is a "poetic" account of the latest ice age?

Or are you saying something else?

I believe it was literal water. I also believe that the Earth shook on its axis, which would cause quick freezing at the poles, providing frozen mammoths and more. You believe it was ice. I think there is common ground where we can reasonably, rationally look at the evidence for both the ice age(s) and the Flood since it is the same evidence.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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27-02-2015, 11:00 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
All,

My 1-2-3-4-5 was steps through time. The West believed in the Flood pre-Enlightenment. The science seems to contradict the Flood, yet the science did not reveal worldwide volcanism or disturbed electromagnetism as the most recent catastrophes, rather, it says there was water covering much of the Earth--water in its solid form. Can we look at the science and see anything that indicates a Flood and progress from there? The worst that happens in such a study is that you better understand Flood theory and Ice Age theory both.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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27-02-2015, 11:11 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(26-02-2015 08:40 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(26-02-2015 12:57 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I think Q in general is full of something stinky, but -- the above claim is part of a historical sequence. He was not saying that this is true now, only that it was once true -- say, up until 400-500 years ago. And he's right about that.

I see what you are saying HOWEVER, when he says "the West accepts..." that is clearly in the present tense. If it was from that long ago, it should have been "the West accepted..." From the tense of the sentence, I doubt he was referring to 400 years ago. I may be wrong though, perhaps he will clarify when he presents the evidence for his claims.

No, go back and read his post. He was clearly presenting a historical sequence, and that was the first item. He was just phrasing everything in present tense. I have heard stories told that way, too. It's an odd technique, but he's not the first to use it.
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27-02-2015, 11:13 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
Q - you officially get the uber gold medal for mental gymnastics! Are you actually proposing the rain water described in the bible story rapidly became frozen due to a rapid tilt in the earth's axis? I know you whine about name calling, but you are an idiot! Nothing else to say about this.

You are a weasel for trying to relate known and well understood facts on how ice ages and glaciers have shaped the surface terrain in places, with the bible rain/flood fable. You are one of many dishonest and evading weasels that have made this pathetic attempt to wish something so bad to be true, and then lie to all, including themselves.

Stop making shit up!

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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