Dat Noah Flood
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05-03-2015, 02:22 PM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
The funniest thing is that despite all the evidence against a biblical flood even some non-theists freak out when you bluntly state that such an even was simply impossible. This happened to me yesterday and it was beyond humorous.
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05-03-2015, 03:36 PM (This post was last modified: 05-03-2015 04:24 PM by TheInquisition.)
RE: Dat Noah Flood
Q asserted earlier that humans over 20,000 years ago built the ark, here is an artist's pic of a paleolithic village from 25-26,000 years ago in Dolni Vestonice:

[Image: dolnivestonicelifeinwintersm.jpg]

He is asserting that Noah and sons, less than 10 people, picked up their stone tools and banged out a 450 ft. long seaworthy vessel rivaling the Titanic. Laughat

I suppose I should put this little bit of reality here so we can quit flying around in fantasy land:

Building the Ark


The requirements of the story.
To make this point clear, let's start at the beginning of the biblical narrative and follow the story step by step. From the moment the impending storm is announced (Genesis 6:7, 13, 17) and Jehovah sets forth the design and dimensions of the ark (Genesis 6:14-16), problems start appearing.

The ark is to be made out of gopher wood according to a plan that calls for the ark to be three hundred cubits long, fifty cubits wide, and thirty cubits tall (450x75x45 feet, according to most creationists. See Segraves, p. 11). It is to contain three floors, a large door in the side, and a one cubit square window at the top. The floors are to be divided into rooms, and all the walls, inside and out, are to be pitched with pitch. Since the purpose of the ark is to hold animals and plants, particularly two of "every living thing of all flesh . . . to keep them alive with thee" (Genesis 6:19), it will have to be constructed accordingly.

- page 2 -

Most creationists simply breeze through this description of the size and requirements of the ark without a second glance ("It is hard to believe that intelligent people see a problem here" — LaHaye and Morris, The Ark on Ararat, p. 248), often with a passing comment about the architectural skill of ancient peoples as manifested in the Seven Wonders of the World. But Noah's boatbuilding accomplishments have not been fully appreciated by his fans.

Ancient shipbuilding.
In the first place, the analogy with the Seven Wonders does not hold. Only one, the Great Pyramid of Cheops, comes within two thousand years of Noah's day, and it is really the only one whose construction could conceivably approach the level of sophistication of the ark. But the Great Pyramid did not spring de novo from the desert sands; rather, it was the culmination of over a century of architectural evolution, beginning when the "experimenting genius," Imhotep, inspired by the ziggurats of Babylon, built the Step Pyramid around 2680 BC, passing through some intermediate step pyramids to the Bent Pyramid of Snofru, then the first true pyramid, and finally the masterpiece at Cheop (Stewart, pp. 35-39).

On the other hand, in an era when hollowed-out logs and reed rafts were the extent of marine transport, a vessel so massive appeared that the likes of it would not be seen again until the mid-nineteenth century AD. Before he could even contemplate such a project, Noah would have needed a thorough education in naval architecture and in fields that would not arise for thousands of years such as physics, calculus, mechanics, and structural analysis. There was no shipbuilding tradition behind him, no experienced craftspeople to offer advice. Where did he learn the framing procedure for such a Brobdingnagian structure? How could he anticipate the effects of roll, pitch, yaw, and slamming in a rough sea? How did he solve the differential equations for bending moment, torque, and shear stress?

Ancient shipbuilding did achieve a considerable level of technological sophistication, so much so that marine archaeologists are divided over its history (Basch, p. 52). But this was for vessels that were dinghies compared to the ark, and this skill emerged slowly over many centuries: nearly a millennium passed while Egyptian boat lengths increase from 150 to 200 feet (Casson, p. 17). Despite this, the craft remained a prescientific art, acquired through long years of apprenticeship and experience, and disasters at sea due to faulty design were so persistent that the impetus was strong for a more scientific approach (Rawson and Tupper, p. 2). Obviously, the astronomical leap in size, safety, and skill required by Noah is far too vast for any naturalistic explanation.

- page 3 -

Not only was the ark without pedigree, it was without descendants also. Creationists Kofahl and Segraves tell us that civilization quickly redeveloped after the flood because the survivors carried over the prediluvian culture: Noah lived 350 years afterwards, Shem 502 (The Creation Explanation, p. 227). During this time, people were fanning out and "replenishing the earth," carrying with them reminiscences of the deluge that would someday excite American missionaries from Sumatra to Spitzbergen. Yet Noah's primary contribution to humanity, his incredible knowledge of naval engineering, vanished without a trace, and the seafarers returned to their hollow logs and reed rafts. Like a passing mirage, the ark was here one day and gone the next, leaving not a ripple in the long saga of shipbuilding.

The needs of the animals.
As if the rough construction of the ship weren't headache enough, the internal organization had to be honed to perfection. With space at a premium every cubit had to be utilized to the maximum; there was no room for oversized cages and wasted space. The various requirements of the myriads of animals had to be taken into account in the design of their quarters, especially considering the length of the voyage. The problems are legion: feeding and watering troughs need to be the correct height for easy access but not on the floor where they will get filthy; the cages for horned animals must have bars spaced properly to prevent their horns from getting stuck, while rhinos require round "bomas" for the same reason; a heavy leather body sling is "indispensable" for transporting giraffes; primates require tamper-proof locks on their doors; perches must be the correct diameter for each particular bird's foot (Hirst; Vincent). Even the flooring is important, for, if it is too hard, hooves may be injured, if too soft, they may grow too quickly and permanently damage ankles (Klos); rats will suffer decubitus (ulcers) with improper floors (Orlans), and ungulates must have a cleated surface or they will slip and fall (Fowler). These and countless other technical problems all had to be resolved before the first termite crawled aboard, but there were no wildlife management experts available for consultation. Even today the transport requirements of many species are not fully known, and it would be physically impossible to design a single carrier to meet them all. Apparently, when God first told Noah to build an ark, he supplied a complete set of blueprints and engineering details, constituting the most intricate and precise revelation ever vouchsafed to humankind.

Problems for the builders.
So Noah grabbed his tools and went to work. LaHaye and Morris tell us that Noah and his three sons could have built the entire thing by themselves in a mere eighty-one years (p. 248). This includes not merely framing up a hull but: building docks, scaffolds, workshops; fitting together the incredible maze of cages and crates; gathering provisions for the coming voyage; harvesting the timber and producing all the various types of lumber from bird cage bars to the huge keelson beams—not to mention wrestling the very heavy, clumsy planks for the ship into their exact location and fastening them. What's worse, by the time the job was finished, the earlier phases would be rotting away—a difficulty often faced by builders of wooden ships, whose work took only four or five years (Thrower, p. 32).

- page 4 -

Faced with such criticism, the creationists quickly convert the humble, righteous farmer into a wealthy capitalist who simply hired all the help he needed (Segraves, p. 86-87). It is estimated that the construction of the Great Pyramid required as many as 100,000 slaves; Noah could have probably gotten by with less (there were, after all, "giants in the earth in those days" according to Genesis 6:4), but what he lacked in numbers he sorely needed in experienced and highly skilled craftsmen. How did he learn when to fell a tree and how to dry it properly to prevent rot and splitting, when the larger beams might take several years to cure (cf. Dumas and Gille, p. 322)? Did the local reed-raft builder have equipment to steam heat a plank so it could be forced into the proper position? A shipyard in nineteenth-century Maine would have been overwhelmed by the size and complexity of this job, yet Noah still supposedly found enough time to hold revivals and preach doomsday throughout the land (Segraves, pp. 87-90).

God told the patriarch to coat the ark, both inside and out, all 229,500 square feet of it, with pitch, and, in fact, this was a common practice in ancient times. But when Noah hurried to the corner hardware store, the shelf was bare, for pitch is a naturally occurring hydrocarbon similar to petroleum (Rosenfeld, p. 126), and we know that oil, tar, and coal deposits were formed when organic matter was buried and subjected to extreme pressure during the flood (Whitcomb and Morris, pp. 277-278, 434-436), so none of it existed in the prediluvian world. Morris (1976, p. 182) tries to say that the word for "pitch" merely means "covering," but not only do all other Bible dictionaries and commentaries translate it "pitch" or "bitumen," but creationist Nathan M. Meyer reveals that all the wood recovered by arkaeologists on Mt. Ararat is "saturated with pitch" (p. 85). Thus it seems that God accommodated Noah by creating an antediluvian tar pit just for the occasion, and we have another miracle.

Finally, our farmer-turned-architect had to confront the gravest difficulty of all: in the words of A. M. Robb, there was an "upper limit, in the region of 300 feet, on the length of the wooden ship; beyond such a length the deformation due to the differing distributions of weight and buoyancy became excessive, with consequent difficulty in maintaining the hull watertight" (p. 355). Pollard and Robertson concur, emphasizing that "a wooden ship had great stresses as a structure. The absolute limit of its length was 300 feet, and it was liable to `hogging' and `sagging' " (pp. 13-14). This is the major reason why the naval industry turned to iron and steel in the 1850s. The largest wooden ships ever built were the six-masted schooners, nine of which were launched between 1900 and 1909. These ships were so long that they required diagonal iron strapping for support; they "snaked," or visibly undulated, as they passed through the waves, they leaked so badly that they had to be pumped constantly, and they were only used on short coastal hauls because they were unsafe in deep water.

- page 5 -

John J. Rockwell, the designer of the first of this class, confessed that "six masters were not practical. They were too long for wood construction" (Laing, pp. 393, 403-409). Yet the ark was over 100 feet longer than the longest six-master, the 329 foot U.S.S. Wyoming, and it had to endure the most severe conditions ever encountered while transporting the most critically important cargo ever hauled. Clearly, God had to imbue this amateurishly assembled gopherwood with some very special properties to fit it for the voyage.

So it should be clear by now why "intelligent people" somehow see a "problem" in the building of the ark.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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05-03-2015, 03:45 PM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
How DARE you confront the devout with FACTS????


that's just plain mean....

...

Next thing, you'll be telling him how Santa Claus can't really fit down the chimney......



heh

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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06-03-2015, 08:23 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
Well you see, Inquisition, there's this book.....................Facepalm

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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06-03-2015, 08:38 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(05-03-2015 10:37 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(05-03-2015 09:12 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  There has been some goalpost shifting in the last few posts. I will try to keep us on track:

1. Can we talk about the ark and the animals it might or might not have carried after we have discussed ice age/flood evidence? Since it's been admitted that numerous cultures have flood stories, we can come back to debating the Noah story after if you still with to do so later...

2. Again there is "look at the snowfalls in the last 20,000 years..." when I never said the Noah flood occurred in the last 20,000 years... we all know science and that we can find cave paintings, agronomy and etc. going back that far... so let's keep on track of ice age/water and not post straw men, please... I'm not saying "straw men" to win some debate, I'm saying straw men because I'm going to give TTA every chance to discuss the scientific evidence before going back to my church with "Yep, the atheists have rhetoric, not facts..." I'm a chance to influence a lot of Christians through my preaching and teaching, and I will recant on the Flood or whatever if we find something different in the evidence.

3. And now the question... how do scientists determine the levels of ancient snowfalls--at temperate zones or further from the poles where there is no permafrost to be sampled and measured?

Thanks...

It's pointless to point out the science to you, your mind is totally in the chains of your false hermeneutics, I just showed you data of no anomalous weather for the past 20,000 years and then you shift the date back to before that. You are a dishonest person who's intellect has been hijacked by your false hermeneutics.
But now you're going to assert that Noah built this nautical impossibility over 20,000 years ago!

Does it matter that nautical engineers say this is an impossible task? No

Does it matter that data shows nothing super-catastrophic occurred in the last 20,000 years? No

Does it matter that if you compress half a billion years of plate tectonics into a year that the oceans would boil? No

Does it matter that the atmosphere would become unbreathable with that much moisture in it, or it couldn't possibly store a fraction of the rain necessary? No

Does it matter Greenland wouldn't even exist as we know it today? No

Does it matter that this is a plagiarized story from Babylon/Sumeria? No

Do the facts matter? Not in Q's delusional world.

All you'll do is make a fantasy land of the imagination to prop up your false beliefs.

Your post is typical, I'm sorry to have to say that. The ice cores in Greenland can only provide several thousand years/layers of data, after that what is beneath as permafrost is pressed so compactly that uniformitarian assumptions are made regarding the dust and etc. beneath.

Also, think about that possibility that a recent ice age was resultant from the Flood. It takes a mix of warm oceans and a lot of precipitation plus cold air temperatures to make an ice age. The Flood is a story of excess water and a lot of precipitation. Noah and his kin live near the equator, no one is doubting the evidence of a recent ice age(s) in Greenland, in Canada or down to parts of Scandinavia and America/the Continent.

And I do hear what you're saying about continental drift, of course. And heat, and physics, and geology. I really do. But there is data there to be sifted. If we are ready to move on to animals and plants and survival and ark construction, etc. we can. And since we all believe in Evolution, it will be easy to show how plant seeds survive or even thrive in saline water, how the sea life didn't need to be aboard the ark and how a multitude of species evolved if quickly from some animals on a ship the size of a modern warship. But I have to tell you--I'll hear something about the impossibility of the Flood--an argument from science--and then do a little research. When there's so much inflammatory comment on this site, and people saying nasty things and posting stupid memes, I wonder if "the other side" is rational at all, even a little bit.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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06-03-2015, 09:30 AM (This post was last modified: 06-03-2015 12:15 PM by onlinebiker.)
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(06-03-2015 08:38 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Your post is typical, I'm sorry to have to say that. The ice cores in Greenland can only provide several thousand years/layers of data, after that what is beneath as permafrost is pressed so compactly that uniformitarian assumptions are made regarding the dust and etc. beneath.

Also, think about that possibility that a recent ice age was resultant from the Flood. It takes a mix of warm oceans and a lot of precipitation plus cold air temperatures to make an ice age. The Flood is a story of excess water and a lot of precipitation. Noah and his kin live near the equator, no one is doubting the evidence of a recent ice age(s) in Greenland, in Canada or down to parts of Scandinavia and America/the Continent.

And I do hear what you're saying about continental drift, of course. And heat, and physics, and geology. I really do. But there is data there to be sifted. If we are ready to move on to animals and plants and survival and ark construction, etc. we can. And since we all believe in Evolution, it will be easy to show how plant seeds survive or even thrive in saline water, how the sea life didn't need to be aboard the ark and how a multitude of species evolved if quickly from some animals on a ship the size of a modern warship. But I have to tell you--I'll hear something about the impossibility of the Flood--an argument from science--and then do a little research. When there's so much inflammatory comment on this site, and people saying nasty things and posting stupid memes, I wonder if "the other side" is rational at all, even a little bit.

THe "Ark" wasn't "the size of a modern warship."

The Coast Guard has smaller boats - but not by much.

The internal volume of the size described simply is NOT large enough to fit in "two of every animals" --- NOT EVEN COUNTING such things as feed, fencing to keep them from eating each other, and enough air to breath...

How can you not get that through your head?????

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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06-03-2015, 10:55 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(06-03-2015 08:38 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(05-03-2015 10:37 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  It's pointless to point out the science to you, your mind is totally in the chains of your false hermeneutics, I just showed you data of no anomalous weather for the past 20,000 years and then you shift the date back to before that. You are a dishonest person who's intellect has been hijacked by your false hermeneutics.
But now you're going to assert that Noah built this nautical impossibility over 20,000 years ago!

Does it matter that nautical engineers say this is an impossible task? No

Does it matter that data shows nothing super-catastrophic occurred in the last 20,000 years? No

Does it matter that if you compress half a billion years of plate tectonics into a year that the oceans would boil? No

Does it matter that the atmosphere would become unbreathable with that much moisture in it, or it couldn't possibly store a fraction of the rain necessary? No

Does it matter Greenland wouldn't even exist as we know it today? No

Does it matter that this is a plagiarized story from Babylon/Sumeria? No

Do the facts matter? Not in Q's delusional world.

All you'll do is make a fantasy land of the imagination to prop up your false beliefs.

Your post is typical, I'm sorry to have to say that. The ice cores in Greenland can only provide several thousand years/layers of data, after that what is beneath as permafrost is pressed so compactly that uniformitarian assumptions are made regarding the dust and etc. beneath.

Also, think about that possibility that a recent ice age was resultant from the Flood. It takes a mix of warm oceans and a lot of precipitation plus cold air temperatures to make an ice age. The Flood is a story of excess water and a lot of precipitation. Noah and his kin live near the equator, no one is doubting the evidence of a recent ice age(s) in Greenland, in Canada or down to parts of Scandinavia and America/the Continent.

And I do hear what you're saying about continental drift, of course. And heat, and physics, and geology. I really do. But there is data there to be sifted. If we are ready to move on to animals and plants and survival and ark construction, etc. we can. And since we all believe in Evolution, it will be easy to show how plant seeds survive or even thrive in saline water, how the sea life didn't need to be aboard the ark and how a multitude of species evolved if quickly from some animals on a ship the size of a modern warship. But I have to tell you--I'll hear something about the impossibility of the Flood--an argument from science--and then do a little research. When there's so much inflammatory comment on this site, and people saying nasty things and posting stupid memes, I wonder if "the other side" is rational at all, even a little bit.
Wait. You think Noahs Ark actually happened and you question if non believers are rational?
That's fucked up man...
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06-03-2015, 03:14 PM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(06-03-2015 08:38 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(05-03-2015 10:37 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  It's pointless to point out the science to you, your mind is totally in the chains of your false hermeneutics, I just showed you data of no anomalous weather for the past 20,000 years and then you shift the date back to before that. You are a dishonest person who's intellect has been hijacked by your false hermeneutics.
But now you're going to assert that Noah built this nautical impossibility over 20,000 years ago!

Does it matter that nautical engineers say this is an impossible task? No

Does it matter that data shows nothing super-catastrophic occurred in the last 20,000 years? No

Does it matter that if you compress half a billion years of plate tectonics into a year that the oceans would boil? No

Does it matter that the atmosphere would become unbreathable with that much moisture in it, or it couldn't possibly store a fraction of the rain necessary? No

Does it matter Greenland wouldn't even exist as we know it today? No

Does it matter that this is a plagiarized story from Babylon/Sumeria? No

Do the facts matter? Not in Q's delusional world.

All you'll do is make a fantasy land of the imagination to prop up your false beliefs.

Your post is typical, I'm sorry to have to say that. The ice cores in Greenland can only provide several thousand years/layers of data, after that what is beneath as permafrost is pressed so compactly that uniformitarian assumptions are made regarding the dust and etc. beneath.

Also, think about that possibility that a recent ice age was resultant from the Flood. It takes a mix of warm oceans and a lot of precipitation plus cold air temperatures to make an ice age. The Flood is a story of excess water and a lot of precipitation. Noah and his kin live near the equator, no one is doubting the evidence of a recent ice age(s) in Greenland, in Canada or down to parts of Scandinavia and America/the Continent.

And I do hear what you're saying about continental drift, of course. And heat, and physics, and geology. I really do. But there is data there to be sifted. If we are ready to move on to animals and plants and survival and ark construction, etc. we can. And since we all believe in Evolution, it will be easy to show how plant seeds survive or even thrive in saline water, how the sea life didn't need to be aboard the ark and how a multitude of species evolved if quickly from some animals on a ship the size of a modern warship. But I have to tell you--I'll hear something about the impossibility of the Flood--an argument from science--and then do a little research. When there's so much inflammatory comment on this site, and people saying nasty things and posting stupid memes, I wonder if "the other side" is rational at all, even a little bit.

We're not even getting to the point of your mythical boat yet, you have shown zero evidence the atmosphere could even hold that much water, you have shown zero evidence that the ark could have been constructed over 20,000 years ago by a paleolithic tribe of less than ten people.
You have yet to even provide a date for this myth. I've told you that ice cores go back 800,000 years and there is no evidence of flood deposition from a worldwide deluge. I showed you a graph of precipitation rates going back 20,000 years. You don't even have a coherent understanding of anything do you?

The last substantial ice age was 22,000 years ago could a crude paleolithic culture with stone tools even begin to show the skill necessary to even conceive of a 450 ft. long seaworthy ship? Did you read my above post? This was simply impossible for these people, it's impossible for modern nautical engineers using steel reinforcement! I don't know what the hell "gopher wood" is, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't match the strength of steel!
Here is a pic of one of the oldest boats ever discovered, a Pesse canoe that is 3 meters long from about 8000 BCE:

[Image: Figure_122.jpg]

This represents the state of the art back then, do you understand? There were no shipbuilders to impart their knowledge to the mythical Noah on how to build an impossible ship, the knowledge simply did not exist! If such knowledge existed, then we would see archeological evidence of these impressive ships. If it was common knowledge on how to build such physics-defying wonders, then we would find archeological evidence for these massive ships. Where is your evidence that such things existed? Where is it?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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06-03-2015, 05:43 PM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(06-03-2015 08:38 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(05-03-2015 10:37 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  It's pointless to point out the science to you, your mind is totally in the chains of your false hermeneutics, I just showed you data of no anomalous weather for the past 20,000 years and then you shift the date back to before that. You are a dishonest person who's intellect has been hijacked by your false hermeneutics.
But now you're going to assert that Noah built this nautical impossibility over 20,000 years ago!

Does it matter that nautical engineers say this is an impossible task? No

Does it matter that data shows nothing super-catastrophic occurred in the last 20,000 years? No

Does it matter that if you compress half a billion years of plate tectonics into a year that the oceans would boil? No

Does it matter that the atmosphere would become unbreathable with that much moisture in it, or it couldn't possibly store a fraction of the rain necessary? No

Does it matter Greenland wouldn't even exist as we know it today? No

Does it matter that this is a plagiarized story from Babylon/Sumeria? No

Do the facts matter? Not in Q's delusional world.

All you'll do is make a fantasy land of the imagination to prop up your false beliefs.

Your post is typical, I'm sorry to have to say that. The ice cores in Greenland can only provide several thousand years/layers of data, after that what is beneath as permafrost is pressed so compactly that uniformitarian assumptions are made regarding the dust and etc. beneath.

Also, think about that possibility that a recent ice age was resultant from the Flood. It takes a mix of warm oceans and a lot of precipitation plus cold air temperatures to make an ice age. The Flood is a story of excess water and a lot of precipitation. Noah and his kin live near the equator, no one is doubting the evidence of a recent ice age(s) in Greenland, in Canada or down to parts of Scandinavia and America/the Continent.

And I do hear what you're saying about continental drift, of course. And heat, and physics, and geology. I really do. But there is data there to be sifted. If we are ready to move on to animals and plants and survival and ark construction, etc. we can. And since we all believe in Evolution, it will be easy to show how plant seeds survive or even thrive in saline water, how the sea life didn't need to be aboard the ark and how a multitude of species evolved if quickly from some animals on a ship the size of a modern warship. But I have to tell you--I'll hear something about the impossibility of the Flood--an argument from science--and then do a little research. When there's so much inflammatory comment on this site, and people saying nasty things and posting stupid memes, I wonder if "the other side" is rational at all, even a little bit.

It seems to me it would be far easier and less time consuming for an omnipotent being to just change the "hearts" of all mankind than to go through the theatrics of telling someone to build an ark and the animals will just show up.

After all, that same omnipotent being would have needed to alter all the animals diets (carnivores not wanting to kill Bambi) and change their need for space (elephants alone need miles of wandering space otherwise their muscles atrophy) and really their whole psychological makeup to survive the trip alone.

But please keep making your excuses for the omnipotent deity that simply cannot actually be omnipotent or even hardly competent.

Let's forget it's all from an far older myth and just about every culture has a flood myth -- at least any place already prone to flooding of any kind. It's kind of ironic that in areas prone to volcanic eruptions they have a different myth.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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07-03-2015, 08:56 PM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(06-03-2015 09:30 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(06-03-2015 08:38 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Your post is typical, I'm sorry to have to say that. The ice cores in Greenland can only provide several thousand years/layers of data, after that what is beneath as permafrost is pressed so compactly that uniformitarian assumptions are made regarding the dust and etc. beneath.

Also, think about that possibility that a recent ice age was resultant from the Flood. It takes a mix of warm oceans and a lot of precipitation plus cold air temperatures to make an ice age. The Flood is a story of excess water and a lot of precipitation. Noah and his kin live near the equator, no one is doubting the evidence of a recent ice age(s) in Greenland, in Canada or down to parts of Scandinavia and America/the Continent.

And I do hear what you're saying about continental drift, of course. And heat, and physics, and geology. I really do. But there is data there to be sifted. If we are ready to move on to animals and plants and survival and ark construction, etc. we can. And since we all believe in Evolution, it will be easy to show how plant seeds survive or even thrive in saline water, how the sea life didn't need to be aboard the ark and how a multitude of species evolved if quickly from some animals on a ship the size of a modern warship. But I have to tell you--I'll hear something about the impossibility of the Flood--an argument from science--and then do a little research. When there's so much inflammatory comment on this site, and people saying nasty things and posting stupid memes, I wonder if "the other side" is rational at all, even a little bit.

THe "Ark" wasn't "the size of a modern warship."

The Coast Guard has smaller boats - but not by much.

The internal volume of the size described simply is NOT large enough to fit in "two of every animals" --- NOT EVEN COUNTING such things as feed, fencing to keep them from eating each other, and enough air to breath...

How can you not get that through your head?????

Don't forget that it only had one window for ventilation.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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