Dat Noah Flood
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
09-03-2015, 03:30 PM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
During the last ice age water levels were lower and people were force to live further south so that the Mediterranean Sea, which is quite shallow, was inhabited. Most of the islands which now remain are montains which rose out of this plain. When the ice melted it flooded the Mediterranean basin and created the Black Sea. One can read the flood stories as renditions of this passed down from generation to generation. No doubt to people who lived through it, it must have seemed like the whole earth flooded.

Ian Wilson has written about it:





In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

The great Biblical flood so described in Genesis has long been a subject of fascination and speculation. In the 19th century the English archbishop James Ussher established it as having happened in the year 2348 B.C., calculating what was then taken as the age of the earth and working backward through the entire series of Biblical "begats." Proof of the flood, which is an element of so many creation myths, began in earnest when archaeology started connecting physical evidence with Biblical story. The dream of proving the Bible as literal truth has proven irresistible, producing both spurious claims and serious scholarship.

As best-selling historian Ian Wilson reveals in this fascinating new book, evidence of a catastrophic event has been building steadily, culminating in the work of William Ryan and Walter Pitman. Several years ago Ryan and Pitman had posited that around 5600 BC there had an inundation in the Black Sea of such proportions that it turned the freshwater lake into a saltwater lake by connecting it to the Mediterranean. Were that true, they estimated that there would be signs of civilization 300 feet below the surface of the Black Sea. In September 2000, using his famous underwater equipment, Robert Ballard (of SS Titanic fame) explored parts of the Black Sea near the Turkish shore and found the remains of wood houses. There had been a flood, and whether God's wrath or not it had destroyed everything around it for hundreds of miles, killing tens of thousands of people.

Exploring all the archeological evidence, Wilson explains how the Black Sea flood and the Biblical flood have to be connected. In particular, Wilson argues, learnedly and persuasively, that the center of the civilized world was further to the West than previously thought-not in Egypt or Mesopotamia but in what is today Northern Turkey.

The earliest, antediluvian civilizations may have migrated east into those places we have come to call the cradles of civilization, forced by the Black Sea flood to create new settlements.

Scrupulous in its details and compelling in its sweep, Before the Flood is narrative detective history at its most provocative, contributing a vital new chapter to the debate about the Bible and origins of the modern world.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-03-2015, 05:10 PM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(09-03-2015 03:30 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Ian Wilson has written about it:


In the six hundredth year of Noah's life,

Here's where I lose all interest in the potential for this whole story to have even a grain of truth.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Anjele's post
09-03-2015, 05:28 PM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(09-03-2015 03:30 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

The great Biblical flood so described in Genesis has long been a subject of fascination and speculation. In the 19th century the English archbishop James Ussher established it as having happened in the year 2348 B.C., calculating what was then taken as the age of the earth and working backward through the entire series of Biblical "begats." Proof of the flood, which is an element of so many creation myths, began in earnest when archaeology started connecting physical evidence with Biblical story. The dream of proving the Bible as literal truth has proven irresistible, producing both spurious claims and serious scholarship.

As best-selling historian Ian Wilson reveals in this fascinating new book, evidence of a catastrophic event has been building steadily, culminating in the work of William Ryan and Walter Pitman. Several years ago Ryan and Pitman had posited that around 5600 BC there had an inundation in the Black Sea of such proportions that it turned the freshwater lake into a saltwater lake by connecting it to the Mediterranean. Were that true, they estimated that there would be signs of civilization 300 feet below the surface of the Black Sea. In September 2000, using his famous underwater equipment, Robert Ballard (of SS Titanic fame) explored parts of the Black Sea near the Turkish shore and found the remains of wood houses. There had been a flood, and whether God's wrath or not it had destroyed everything around it for hundreds of miles, killing tens of thousands of people.

Exploring all the archeological evidence, Wilson explains how the Black Sea flood and the Biblical flood have to be connected. In particular, Wilson argues, learnedly and persuasively, that the center of the civilized world was further to the West than previously thought-not in Egypt or Mesopotamia but in what is today Northern Turkey.

The earliest, antediluvian civilizations may have migrated east into those places we have come to call the cradles of civilization, forced by the Black Sea flood to create new settlements.

Scrupulous in its details and compelling in its sweep, Before the Flood is narrative detective history at its most provocative, contributing a vital new chapter to the debate about the Bible and origins of the modern world.

Even if there is some truth in that theory, it is not the Biblical flood myth, just a possible basis.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
10-03-2015, 10:34 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
All,

1. The ark had a Designer/Architect who gave Noah some plans and commissioned the work. So looking at some ancient dugout canoes is irrelevant.

2. There is nothing that precludes Noah hiring laborers besides his family, and indeed, they would have had some interesting chats about "the end being near" and so it was...

3. I'm not saying Greenland isn't ancient. I'm saying that ice core measurements begin with about 2,000 layers and then uniformitarian assumptions are made for super-compacted "layers" beneath those layers...

4. You don't know what warships are, apparently. Noah's ship would be 450 feet by 75 feet by 45 feet high. 5,000 to 50,000 animals, most of them quite smaller than elephants and so on, and also likely young, small specimens, could be aboard and fill only 1/3 of the ship, leaving room for supplies.

5. I believe in natural selection and Evolution (and adaptation) so those thousands of animals would cover terrestrial development after.

6. Fresh water exists today alongside seawater without mixing. There could have been layers of fresh water atop the saline water of the Flood.

7. No one is denying the ice age, but if you're open-minded, go research some of the evidence/case for one recent ice age occurring after Noah's Flood.

8. There's more than enough water in the oceans if the current ocean basins as well as mountain ranges were at different heights. Extreme volcanism and etc. could have accompanied the flood, provided water flow and precipitation, etc. It was a massive cataclysm. (Yes, I know you will shout out some uniformitarian reasons why mountains rise oh-so-slowly...)

9. No, I don't know the date of the Flood. Nor do you. Nor does the Bible state such. Nor can we say with impunity buh-but pottery is X years old--those dates are in flux in science, and it "just so happens" that agronomy, pottery, society, etc. don't go back millions or even hundreds of thousands of years.

10. I'd heard somewhere that except for very modern times and the advent of improved healthcare and fertility that humanity tends to double every 125 years or so (high birth rates vs. high infant mortality, war, famine, etc.). I plugged this into MS Excel now and what do you know?

Years into the past People on Earth
125 7,000,000,000
250 3,500,000,000
375 1,750,000,000
500 875,000,000
625 437,500,000
750 218,750,000
875 109,375,000
1000 54,687,500
1125 27,343,750
1250 13,671,875
1375 6,835,938
1500 3,417,969
1625 1,708,984
1750 854,492
1875 427,246
2000 213,623
2125 106,812
2250 53,406
2375 26,703
2500 13,351
2625 6,676
2750 3,338
2875 1,669
3000 834
3125 417
3250 209
3375 104
3500 52
3625 26
3750 13
3875 7

7 people plus Noah equals 8 persons saved from a Flood (not that I can certify this date for the Flood of 1900 BCE)...

Thanks, all.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-03-2015, 03:32 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(10-03-2015 10:34 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

1. The ark had a Designer/Architect who gave Noah some plans and commissioned the work. So looking at some ancient dugout canoes is irrelevant.

2. There is nothing that precludes Noah hiring laborers besides his family, and indeed, they would have had some interesting chats about "the end being near" and so it was...

3. I'm not saying Greenland isn't ancient. I'm saying that ice core measurements begin with about 2,000 layers and then uniformitarian assumptions are made for super-compacted "layers" beneath those layers...

4. You don't know what warships are, apparently. Noah's ship would be 450 feet by 75 feet by 45 feet high. 5,000 to 50,000 animals, most of them quite smaller than elephants and so on, and also likely young, small specimens, could be aboard and fill only 1/3 of the ship, leaving room for supplies.

5. I believe in natural selection and Evolution (and adaptation) so those thousands of animals would cover terrestrial development after.

6. Fresh water exists today alongside seawater without mixing. There could have been layers of fresh water atop the saline water of the Flood.

7. No one is denying the ice age, but if you're open-minded, go research some of the evidence/case for one recent ice age occurring after Noah's Flood.

8. There's more than enough water in the oceans if the current ocean basins as well as mountain ranges were at different heights. Extreme volcanism and etc. could have accompanied the flood, provided water flow and precipitation, etc. It was a massive cataclysm. (Yes, I know you will shout out some uniformitarian reasons why mountains rise oh-so-slowly...)

9. No, I don't know the date of the Flood. Nor do you. Nor does the Bible state such. Nor can we say with impunity buh-but pottery is X years old--those dates are in flux in science, and it "just so happens" that agronomy, pottery, society, etc. don't go back millions or even hundreds of thousands of years.

10. I'd heard somewhere that except for very modern times and the advent of improved healthcare and fertility that humanity tends to double every 125 years or so (high birth rates vs. high infant mortality, war, famine, etc.). I plugged this into MS Excel now and what do you know?

Years into the past People on Earth
125 7,000,000,000
250 3,500,000,000
375 1,750,000,000
500 875,000,000
625 437,500,000
750 218,750,000
875 109,375,000
1000 54,687,500
1125 27,343,750
1250 13,671,875
1375 6,835,938
1500 3,417,969
1625 1,708,984
1750 854,492
1875 427,246
2000 213,623
2125 106,812
2250 53,406
2375 26,703
2500 13,351
2625 6,676
2750 3,338
2875 1,669
3000 834
3125 417
3250 209
3375 104
3500 52
3625 26
3750 13
3875 7

7 people plus Noah equals 8 persons saved from a Flood (not that I can certify this date for the Flood of 1900 BCE)...

Thanks, all.

So you got a precise number (7) from a rough estimate (7.000.000.000)?

The problem is also that there is a LOT of other questions/problems that would need answering/ a solution in order to believe the flood actually happened.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-03-2015, 05:18 AM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2015 05:35 AM by TheInquisition.)
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(10-03-2015 10:34 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

1. The ark had a Designer/Architect who gave Noah some plans and commissioned the work. So looking at some ancient dugout canoes is irrelevant.

2. There is nothing that precludes Noah hiring laborers besides his family, and indeed, they would have had some interesting chats about "the end being near" and so it was...

3. I'm not saying Greenland isn't ancient. I'm saying that ice core measurements begin with about 2,000 layers and then uniformitarian assumptions are made for super-compacted "layers" beneath those layers...

4. You don't know what warships are, apparently. Noah's ship would be 450 feet by 75 feet by 45 feet high. 5,000 to 50,000 animals, most of them quite smaller than elephants and so on, and also likely young, small specimens, could be aboard and fill only 1/3 of the ship, leaving room for supplies.

5. I believe in natural selection and Evolution (and adaptation) so those thousands of animals would cover terrestrial development after.

6. Fresh water exists today alongside seawater without mixing. There could have been layers of fresh water atop the saline water of the Flood.

7. No one is denying the ice age, but if you're open-minded, go research some of the evidence/case for one recent ice age occurring after Noah's Flood.

8. There's more than enough water in the oceans if the current ocean basins as well as mountain ranges were at different heights. Extreme volcanism and etc. could have accompanied the flood, provided water flow and precipitation, etc. It was a massive cataclysm. (Yes, I know you will shout out some uniformitarian reasons why mountains rise oh-so-slowly...)

9. No, I don't know the date of the Flood. Nor do you. Nor does the Bible state such. Nor can we say with impunity buh-but pottery is X years old--those dates are in flux in science, and it "just so happens" that agronomy, pottery, society, etc. don't go back millions or even hundreds of thousands of years.

10. I'd heard somewhere that except for very modern times and the advent of improved healthcare and fertility that humanity tends to double every 125 years or so (high birth rates vs. high infant mortality, war, famine, etc.). I plugged this into MS Excel now and what do you know?

Years into the past People on Earth
125 7,000,000,000
250 3,500,000,000
375 1,750,000,000
500 875,000,000
625 437,500,000
750 218,750,000
875 109,375,000
1000 54,687,500
1125 27,343,750
1250 13,671,875
1375 6,835,938
1500 3,417,969
1625 1,708,984
1750 854,492
1875 427,246
2000 213,623
2125 106,812
2250 53,406
2375 26,703
2500 13,351
2625 6,676
2750 3,338
2875 1,669
3000 834
3125 417
3250 209
3375 104
3500 52
3625 26
3750 13
3875 7

7 people plus Noah equals 8 persons saved from a Flood (not that I can certify this date for the Flood of 1900 BCE)...

Thanks, all.

As always, your amateur Excel speculation is silly, population growth is much more complex than that.

Here's the story, the atmosphere became so saturated with water, Noah suffocated along with all life on Earth, the end.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-03-2015, 05:46 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
7 people contain all the genetic diversity of our current gene pool????

Congratulations !!!

You win the "Overlooking the Fatal Flaw of Your Argument" award - for excellence in obfuscation, ignoring of facts and general bullshitting.

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like onlinebiker's post
17-03-2015, 11:53 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
I see, so you have no refutations to my other nine points, only complaints that the 7/8 people would have existed when fundamentalists said there were 8 people on Earth!

http://creation.com/noah-and-genetics

I'm done, I think.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-03-2015, 11:57 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(17-03-2015 11:53 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I see, so you have no refutations to my other nine points, only complaints that the 7/8 people would have existed when fundamentalists said there were 8 people on Earth!

http://creation.com/noah-and-genetics

I'm done, I think.

One can only hope. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Chas's post
17-03-2015, 02:24 PM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(17-03-2015 11:53 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I see, so you have no refutations to my other nine points, only complaints that the 7/8 people would have existed when fundamentalists said there were 8 people on Earth!

http://creation.com/noah-and-genetics

I'm done, I think.

Please let it be true - don't tease us! Sorry for your complete fail on this matter you ignorant, dishonest, desperate, closed minded dolt.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Timber1025's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: