Dat Noah Flood
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02-04-2015, 10:17 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(01-04-2015 01:56 PM)TubbyTubby Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 01:49 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ...Almost every ancient culture, however, has a Flood story. Not a fire story, meteorite story... a Flood story. They DID bother to mention it in their records.

Yeh because there are countless examples of cities devastated by fire or meteor strikes in the past 2000 years eh?

And how many tsunamis have been recorded in the past 50 years dumbass?

Not bad logic there. Go a bit further. Why are so many of the ancient stories whittling down the humans to a few, on a large boat, in a world judged for sin?

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02-04-2015, 10:20 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(01-04-2015 02:21 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 01:55 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The Greenland Society of Atlanta has recently attempted to excavate a 10-foot diameter shaft in the Greenland ice pack to remove two B-17 Flying Fortresses and six P-38 Lightning fighters trapped under an estimated 250 feet of ice for almost 50 years (Bloomberg, 1989). Aside from the fascination with salvaging several vintage aircraft for parts and movie rights, the fact that these aircraft were buried so deeply in such a short time focuses attention on the time scales used to estimate the chronologies of ice.

If the aircraft were buried under about 250 feet of ice and snow in about 50 years, this means the ice sheet has been accumulating at an average rate of five feet per year. The Greenland ice sheet averages almost 4000 feet thick. If we were to assume the ice sheet has been accumulating at this rate since its beginning, it would take less than 1000 years for it to form and the recent-creation model might seem to be vindicated.

Facepalm

Okay, I admit to following the original story of the rediscovered planes(Am pretty sure all the crews were safely evacuated/rescued from their forced landing) as it was reported as I have a love for flying machines of all types and that such historic machines could be preserved and thence the herculean effort undertaken to dig them out and get them home was fascinating.

Now, the actual response to Q is. Do you understand,

A) How the ice cores are measured to determine the layers to indicate yearly cycles?

B) You are aware of the compacting nature of said weight of snow which slowly compresses itself over time down into ice?

C) (An aside) You are aware of the significant damage to all of those buried machines due to the significant weight of said snow compacting into ice over that time?

As in... you're quoting figures with out understand what those figures actually mean/apply.

Much cheers to all.

Have you read the thread? The compaction of ice is a main reason to disregard these "800,000-year" ice cores...

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02-04-2015, 10:22 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(01-04-2015 03:35 PM)Esquilax Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 01:53 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  It's hard to accept "THIS IS HOW AND WHERE AND WHY ALL MOUNTAINS FORMED" when the whole science rests on uniformitarian assumptions, assumptions that few people want to really consider/reconsider. God forbid the science show in ANY way that the Earth is young, or there was a flood event, etc. as we all know what THAT means.

It's always amusing, seeing how people harp on the assumptions of science, since the enormous leaps between the assumptions they see, and the conclusions they think discarding them will support, are so monumental they demonstrate that scientific rigor is the last thing on their minds, as opposed to just poking holes in the mistaken belief that doing so will elevate their own beliefs.

In your case, uniformitarian beliefs are based on a solid period of time where things have remained... uniform. That's evidence of uniformity, considering that it's... well, consistent uniformity. You don't need to assume, when literally all the evidence points to it.

But even if you were right, and here's where my first comment becomes relevant... discarding the idea that things stay uniform does not lead one to believe the Earth is young, or that there was a flood. That's your preferred belief, but without a principle of uniformitarianism, all we've really established is that we have unreliable mechanisms for measuring things in reality. That doesn't provide any evidence, at all, that your proposed answers are right. Hell, it doesn't even provide any evidence that the current science is wrong. And yet here you sit, asserting that there's some conspiracy to keep your views down by assuming uniformity; you're swinging altogether too wildly, and tipping your hand in the process.

Besides, you'd need evidence to counteract the observation of uniformity that we get every day. Just calling it an assumption doesn't invalidate the observation; you're essentially accusing science of bluffing, when you yourself aren't even holding any cards.

Actually, there are thousands of webpages online debunking uniformitarian science and a very old Earth.

And there's no need for some wild conspiracy. ANY data any mainstream science debunking an old Earth must leave the scientist's hands immediately or he risks persecution.

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02-04-2015, 10:24 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(01-04-2015 04:39 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 01:49 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ..

...Almost every ancient culture, however, has a Flood story. Not a fire story, meteorite story... a Flood story. They DID bother to mention it in their records.

Now we have to consider whether the Bible is accurate and etc. Time to move on.

NOT JAPAN!!! 日本は国すごいです

The Japanese have the Divine Wind story as they were transplanted from China. The Chinese have the Noah story embedded in their language:

https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j19_...96-108.pdf

Also, the creation myth of Japan is... people getting to the islands via a boat after a storm!

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02-04-2015, 10:26 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(02-04-2015 02:14 AM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 09:21 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  But wait, that means....... Odin is REAL!!!!!!!

[Image: 4ktW8nz.jpg]

Ehm... That's Thor. Tongue Odin has an eye patch.

BUT, if Thor is real, that also means that Odin was, too. Checkmate. Tongue

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
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02-04-2015, 10:27 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(01-04-2015 04:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 01:55 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If the aircraft were buried under about 250 feet of ice and snow in about 50 years, this means the ice sheet has been accumulating at an average rate of five feet per year. The Greenland ice sheet averages almost 4000 feet thick. If we were to assume the ice sheet has been accumulating at this rate since its beginning, it would take less than 1000 years for it to form and the recent-creation model might seem to be vindicated.

So, you're assuming uniformitarianism? Consider

And ignoring the science of ice sheets.

How is uniformitarian assumption to look at the past 1,000 years of snowfall rates? Mainstream science makes leaps and fills in gaps of the past million years before modern homo sapiens... Consider

I'm not ignoring the science of ice sheets. Yet again, you make general statements that are untrue. YOU are ignoring my comments about the science of ice sheets that underscores their assumptions. Assumptions which pervert the data results because no-no-no--this Greenland ice couldn't be 10,000 years old, it must be 800,000 years old, just look at the dust in the ice, etc.

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02-04-2015, 10:28 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(01-04-2015 06:23 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  [Image: 1z4bdc1.jpg]

I kind of agree--almost--with #8. The other 9 "points" show you nothing about my doctrine as presented in the last 1,000 posts or so.

Remember, I'm always interested in original thinking, and not memes you find on Google.

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02-04-2015, 10:30 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(02-04-2015 10:22 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Actually, there are thousands of webpages online debunking uniformitarian science and a very old Earth.

So are we to take this as proof? There are also thousands of pages debunking religion and you seem to have no problem dismissing those. So could you explain why?

(02-04-2015 10:22 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  And there's no need for some wild conspiracy. ANY data any mainstream science debunking an old Earth must leave the scientist's hands immediately or he risks persecution.

Can you name any instance where this actually happened where the person in question wasn't using horrible techniques and therefore deserved to be laughed out of the room? I am actually curious, not trying to be patronizing.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
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02-04-2015, 10:56 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(02-04-2015 10:28 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(01-04-2015 06:23 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  [Image: 1z4bdc1.jpg]

I kind of agree--almost--with #8. The other 9 "points" show you nothing about my doctrine as presented in the last 1,000 posts or so.

Remember, I'm always interested in original thinking, and not memes you find on Google.

Noted, remember I'm always interested in the real world, and rational epistemological thinking when considering the amazing world we live in. You are an intelligent person, it confounds me you subscribe to such easily disproven fabricated myths, especially in the face of a plethora of empirical evidence to the contrary.

The study of man's fascination in constructing hero gods is one that goes back thousands of years, and many borrow from the last...like the twin stories of Romulus - jesus, although Romulus predates jesus by 800 years. Flood stories are also a popular story, rain falls, floods occur, people get scared, and back then ANY unusual occurrence in the world was attributed to the anger or displeasure of this fabricated god or that one, because THAT was their science back then, they didn't have the knowledge we have now on how ecosystems work, weather impacts, climate change, the correlation and causation of droughts leading to floods etc etc. The existence of flood stories worldwide do not a global flood make...even outside the parable called the bible which stole its stories from older Greek, Sumerian and Canaanite myths.

Since all we have is "stories" a thinking person would investigate the evidence at hand, since we can look at strata layers and establish that a global wide Extinction Life Event flood did not occur. So the fact that there IS stories in most cultures of a flood, and that there IS regional flood evidence here and there, does NOT equal a global flood as per ANY mythical global flood story. So when you continue to dance the Macarena while trying to come up with cute spins on the story, it just discredits and demeans your intellect...

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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02-04-2015, 11:20 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(02-04-2015 10:24 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The Japanese have the Divine Wind story as they were transplanted from China. The Chinese have the Noah story embedded in their language:

The Kamikaze (神風, Japanese for divine wind), were two winds or storms that are said to have saved Japan from two Mongol fleets under Kublai Khan. These fleets attacked Japan in 1274 and again in 1281. Due to growth of Zen Buddhism among Samurai at the time, these were the first events where the typhoons were described as "divine wind" as much by their timing as by their force. Since Man'yōshū, the word kamikaze has been used as a Makurakotoba of waka introducing Ise Grand Shrine.

So Mongol fleets suffered but the japanese survived? Strange how the flood still did not affect them.

(02-04-2015 10:24 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  https://creation.com/images/pdfs/tj/j19_...96-108.pdf

Also, the creation myth of Japan is... people getting to the islands via a boat after a storm!

Nah bitch

http://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/CS/CSJapan.html

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