Dat Noah Flood
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23-02-2015, 02:59 PM (This post was last modified: 24-02-2015 11:48 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(23-02-2015 01:56 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

The Bible does not give a date for the Flood. We can start to have a discussion with "is their evidence for a worldwide flood?" but I will again challenge your specious flood dating as received from--some mystic? Some ignoramus counting "begets"? Really?

*Ice is made of water--the debate is whether this ice moved slowly or was quick-moving water

*There are interesting anomalies worldwide that stump geologists that grow far less confusing when looking at catastrophes like a large flood

*You are making uniformitarian assumptions without considering that many of your own ideas about the present world's geography are of course based on catastrophism and a world with a different geography and even atmosphere than we have now

The date for the mythical flood is part of your fable, we just deal with the myth as it is presented...for example:

"Paul, a university trained Jew, well skilled in the Hebrew language, the religion of the Jews and the writings of Moses, wrote in the early years of the Christian era, a letter to the church at Galatia (Galatians 3:17). He stated that the Israelites left Egypt to return to the promised land 430 years (see Appendix 3) after God gave the promise to Abraham, the founder of the Jewish race.

According to Acts 7:4 and Genesis 12:1-4, Abraham was 75 years old when God gave him the promise and in the same year his father Terah was 205 years old and Abraham was born when Terah was 130 years of age (Gen.11:26-33). (See Appendix 4.)

The statements of genealogy in Genesis 11:10-26, are father-son statements and link Abraham to Noah’s son, Shem. The statements list the persons by name. Their year of birth against their father’s age is listed and their father is named. These chronologies do not have missing generations; there are no gaps.

If we add up the figures mentioned between Shem’s 100th year (Gen. 11:10) and Abraham (Gen. 11:26) we get 350 years. Since 9 names are mentioned it is 350 years ± 9 (9 margins of error of up to 1 year each).

Genesis 11:10 tells us that Shem was 100 years old, 2 years after the Flood had finished. When was Noah’s Flood? 1,981 years to AD 1 plus 967 years to the founding of Solomon’s Temple plus 480 years to the end of the Exodus plus 430 years to the promise to Abraham plus 75 years to Abraham’s birth plus 350 years to Shem’s 100th birthday plus 2 years to the Flood. The Biblical data places the Flood at 2304 BC ± 11 years."

http://creation.com/the-date-of-noahs-flood

Now I can eviscerate this "doctors" BS based on facts like...the exodus didnt happen either, but why bother. The point is, I have seen some variations, but all Xtian myth points to the area of 2300 BCE...which is Gasp what I said. Lets look at more delusion..

Our good friend Ken Ham says..

Calculated BC date for creation: 4004
Calculated AM date for the Flood: - 1656
Calculated BC date for the Flood: 2348
Current Year (minus one2): + 2011
Number of years since beginning of Flood: 4359

Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

https://answersingenesis.org/bible-timel...the-flood/

But wait! in 2012 this story broke the news!!!

"Evidence Noah's Biblical Flood Happened, Says Robert Ballard"

Holy shit, then you read the article and........

"According to a controversial theory proposed by two Columbia University scientists, there really was one in the Black Sea region. "...

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/evidenc...d=17884533

Wait a minute, stop the presses...that ISNT a global flood, that is a Local/regional flood...which is a HUGE difference Rolleyes That would make the global flood story a PARABLE...an EXAGGERATION.....well no shit. But lets continue our google search, because i know that is how Q researchs...

hmmmm maybe here...


"First-century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus used manuscripts available during his time to calculate that Noah's Flood occurred 1556 years after the creation of Adam. By adding the ages of the patriarchs listed in the Bible, other scholars have come up with roughly similar dates.

Irish archbishop James Ussher calculated that the creation of the world took place in 4004 BC. If 1656 is deducted from 4004 then the worldwide flood of Noah's time was around 2348 BC (if both chronologies are correct; but please note that there is some disagreement even among conservative Bible believers on these dates).

Josephus, Ussher, and other scholars disagree slightly on some of their dates. But most agree that a straightforward reading of the Bible indicates the Deluge must have taken place in the third millennium before the birth of Jesus Christ — probably between 2500 BC and 2300 BC."

http://www.creationtips.com/flooddate.html

well fuck, what do you know...it would seem those that sell the myth, all seem to say it occurred around 2300-2400ish BCE....so when I say weather conditions havent existed in the last 10k years to create greenland, that would be check mate.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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23-02-2015, 03:03 PM (This post was last modified: 23-02-2015 03:53 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(23-02-2015 02:57 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 03:03 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  The Bible explains that in the end of days scoffers will stick to uniformitarian ideals and forget the catastrophes on Earth in the days of Noah. Be careful!

I'm sure it doesn't say exactly that. If it did, it would be a lot easier to believe.

Besides, how rare that a holy book would warn against critics and doubters.

hmmm let me see, I am writing a laughable account of how the world was created, and how a god sent his son down to appease himself for their "sin" of eating the apple that he knew they would eat...and Gasp damn, you know, they are going to point and laugh me out of town when I publish this nonsense, oooooooooh I know, i will brilliantly add a line in there that "there will be those who scoff, and they shall burn in hell" or some such lie...Yes that will give them pause...

wow, that truly was brilliant...clearly that was a divine prophesy of things to come...Rolleyes

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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23-02-2015, 03:09 PM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(23-02-2015 03:03 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(23-02-2015 02:57 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  I'm sure it doesn't say exactly that. If it did, it would be a lot easier to believe.

Besides, how rare that a holy book would warn against critics and doubters.

hmmm let me see, I am writing a laughable account of how the world was created, and how a god sent his son down to appease himself for their "sin" of eating the apple that he knew they would eat...and Gasp damn, you know, they are going to point and laugh me out of town when I publish this nonsense, oooooooooh I know, i will brilliantly add a line in there that "there will be those who scoff, and they shall burn in hell" or some such lie...wow, that truly was brilliant...clearly that was a divine prophesy of things to come...Rolleyes

It's stuff like that in the bible that leads me to believe that the writers themselves knew what a load of BS it was. Just tell the peasants they can live forever, then tell them they'll go to a bad place if they don't follow our book. Imaginary reward and punishment, what a convenient method for control.....

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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23-02-2015, 09:59 PM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
I found the latest pic of good ol' Q

[Image: 56364394.jpg]

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
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24-02-2015, 09:35 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(23-02-2015 01:56 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  but I will again challenge your specious flood dating as received from--some mystic? Some ignoramus counting "begets"? Really?

Are you saying the "begets" listed in the Bible are inaccurate in and of themselves, or that we cannot rely on them to alone to place when Noah lived?

If not, why not? If they are accurate, and we know the maximum age of people, we can narrow it down to a range of dates that is certainly measured in a single-digit's worth of millennia.

So, are you saying the begets aren't accurate?


(23-02-2015 01:56 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  *Ice is made of water--the debate is whether this ice moved slowly or was quick-moving water

Are you saying the "flood" was a global covering of ice, or something different?


(23-02-2015 01:56 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  *There are interesting anomalies worldwide that stump geologists that grow far less confusing when looking at catastrophes like a large flood

Such as?


(23-02-2015 01:56 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  *You are making uniformitarian assumptions without considering that many of your own ideas about the present world's geography are of course based on catastrophism and a world with a different geography and even atmosphere than we have now

You're saying the pre-flood world had a different atmosphere than we have now? What are you basing this on? In what ways was it different?
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24-02-2015, 10:13 AM (This post was last modified: 24-02-2015 10:25 AM by TheInquisition.)
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(24-02-2015 09:35 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  You're saying the pre-flood world had a different atmosphere than we have now? What are you basing this on? In what ways was it different?

How did Noah and the animals on the ark breathe pre and post flood?

Jeebus Q, do you want to continue digging?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

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24-02-2015, 11:00 AM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(23-02-2015 01:56 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  *Ice is made of water--the debate is whether this ice moved slowly or was quick-moving water

Are you actually asserting that Noah's flood was a world-wide glacier? WTF do you come up with this stuff!!??

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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24-02-2015, 01:27 PM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
All,

Confusion reigns here among the atheists. Ice and liquid water are both water. If we affirm a near-global ice age or series of ice ages, we affirm that water affected many geographic features on the Earth. I'm not asserting that Noah's flood was a glacier as TheInquisition asks, rather, I'm trying to establish some common ground for us to begin with--and since Genesis isn't telling a story/narrative in present tense, rather Moses is telling stories that go back everywhere from 400 years prior to Creation itself...

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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24-02-2015, 01:36 PM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(24-02-2015 01:27 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

Confusion reigns here among the atheists. Ice and liquid water are both water. If we affirm a near-global ice age or series of ice ages, we affirm that water affected many geographic features on the Earth. I'm not asserting that Noah's flood was a glacier as TheInquisition asks, rather, I'm trying to establish some common ground for us to begin with--and since Genesis isn't telling a story/narrative in present tense, rather Moses is telling stories that go back everywhere from 400 years prior to Creation itself...

You're the confused one here, I've yet to see a coherent claim, I still don't know what kind of mystical fairytale you're trying to concoct here.

You want to get all squishy on the date of the flood so you can hide behind that.

You make weird-ass half-assertions about global ice and changing atmosphere. (citation or GTFO!) If you're going to make a point, get to it!

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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24-02-2015, 02:45 PM
RE: Dat Noah Flood
(24-02-2015 01:27 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  All,

Confusion reigns here among the atheists. Ice and liquid water are both water. If we affirm a near-global ice age or series of ice ages, we affirm that water affected many geographic features on the Earth. I'm not asserting that Noah's flood was a glacier as TheInquisition asks, rather, I'm trying to establish some common ground for us to begin with--and since Genesis isn't telling a story/narrative in present tense, rather Moses is telling stories that go back everywhere from 400 years prior to Creation itself...

Um, no. The tale includes people, so it goes back only as far as there were people.
And we know that there was no global flood in that time frame.

The common ground is evidence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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