David Lee vs Revenant77x
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19-06-2013, 02:36 AM
 
RE: David Lee vs Revenant77x
(18-06-2013 10:06 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  As to your asinine statement about that no-name town it is self defeating as no one would claim to be from there if they themselves do not know the name of it. Nazareth is a major city in the region now mainly due to religious tourism and that original mistranslation of Nazarene to of Nazareth. Yeshua ben Joseph was a member of the Essene cult the Nazarene's along with his older cousin John and his brother James who took over the leadership of the cult that Yeshua received upon John's death when Yeshua was executed for breaking Pax Romana.

I will address the first point later, but quickly as for the Essene accusation it is baseless. the Essenes were a quite group of men who recruited a very small group periodically to carry out their traditions. Their teachings were kept very private. They wore only white inexpensive garb made by themselves. They taught the immortal soul and hell, and thought that having a bowel movement was a violation of the Sabbath.

As much unlike Jesus as they could possibly be.
19-06-2013, 10:33 AM
RE: David Lee vs Revenant77x
(19-06-2013 02:36 AM)David Lee Wrote:  
(18-06-2013 10:06 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  As to your asinine statement about that no-name town it is self defeating as no one would claim to be from there if they themselves do not know the name of it. Nazareth is a major city in the region now mainly due to religious tourism and that original mistranslation of Nazarene to of Nazareth. Yeshua ben Joseph was a member of the Essene cult the Nazarene's along with his older cousin John and his brother James who took over the leadership of the cult that Yeshua received upon John's death when Yeshua was executed for breaking Pax Romana.

I will address the first point later, but quickly as for the Essene accusation it is baseless. the Essenes were a quite group of men who recruited a very small group periodically to carry out their traditions. Their teachings were kept very private. They wore only white inexpensive garb made by themselves. They taught the immortal soul and hell, and thought that having a bowel movement was a violation of the Sabbath.

As much unlike Jesus as they could possibly be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essenes

Quote:The Church Father Epiphanius (writing in the 4th century CE) seems to make a distinction between two main groups within the Essenes:[31] "Of those that came before his [Elxai, an Ossaean prophet] time and during it, the Ossaeans and the Nazarean."[51] Epiphanius describes each group as following:
The Nazarean – they were Jews by nationality – originally from Gileaditis, Bashanitis and the Transjordan… They acknowledged Moses and believed that he had received laws – not this law, however, but some other. And so, they were Jews who kept all the Jewish observances, but they would not offer sacrifice or eat meat. They considered it unlawful to eat meat or make sacrifices with it. They claim that these Books are fictions, and that none of these customs were instituted by the fathers. This was the difference between the Nazarean and the others…[52]
After this Nazarean sect in turn comes another closely connected with them, called the Ossaeans. These are Jews like the former… originally came from Nabataea, Ituraea, Moabitis and Arielis, the lands beyond the basin of what sacred scripture called the Salt Sea… Though it is different from the other six of these seven sects, it causes schism only by forbidding the books of Moses like the Nazarean.[51]

http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/018...Essene.php

Quote: The objective of Jesus as the head of the Nazarenes was exactly what Christians have always said it was. He was trying to convert the sinners of Israel before the End. What has come to us of his attempt has come from some of his converts. He was a professional Essene, but preaching to the masses. The people who recorded Jesus’s doctrine had only a partial knowledge of it. He had no time to explain to them the finer points of Essene theology. His object was to have them repent and be ritually purified by baptism, ready for God’s Appointed Time, which would be soon! The Essenes had exactly the same aim. The differences are only apparent, because we have only an incomplete idea of the views of both Jesus and the Essenes, and the church has made its own changes later. What we do know overlaps far more than can be explained by accident.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/jlgi/jlgi05.htm


John the Baptist, the cousin of Yeshua was also a Nazarene Essene, and was in fact the leader of their branch until his death. Yeshua only took over after John was stoned.

http://www.essene.com/What is a Nazarene.htm





Now there are some differences between the Nazarene version of Essene as Yeshua and his followers are shown eating fish (in fact his early followers had been working as fishermen before leaving their families to follow the charismatic cult leader) while the Essene are strict vegetarians. Nazarenes also had a strong Messianic streak (in the true meaning of the term not the bastardised Paul of Tarsus meaning) they were politically motivated and Yeshua and John may have had designs on becoming high priest and King of Israel (John being High Priest and Yeshua becoming King) The fact that the later Roman writers sanitized the anti-gentile rebel from the character of Yeshua (one step in changing him into the Jesus Christ we know of today) is no real surprise as you can see in the Gospels themselves a shift to more anti-jewish pro-roman sentiment in the later books (John for instance is dripping with anti-semitism)

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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19-06-2013, 05:30 PM
 
RE: David Lee vs Revenant77x
(19-06-2013 10:33 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(19-06-2013 02:36 AM)David Lee Wrote:  I will address the first point later, but quickly as for the Essene accusation it is baseless. the Essenes were a quite group of men who recruited a very small group periodically to carry out their traditions. Their teachings were kept very private. They wore only white inexpensive garb made by themselves. They taught the immortal soul and hell, and thought that having a bowel movement was a violation of the Sabbath.

As much unlike Jesus as they could possibly be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essenes

Quote:The Church Father Epiphanius (writing in the 4th century CE) seems to make a distinction between two main groups within the Essenes:[31] "Of those that came before his [Elxai, an Ossaean prophet] time and during it, the Ossaeans and the Nazarean."[51] Epiphanius describes each group as following:
The Nazarean – they were Jews by nationality – originally from Gileaditis, Bashanitis and the Transjordan… They acknowledged Moses and believed that he had received laws – not this law, however, but some other. And so, they were Jews who kept all the Jewish observances, but they would not offer sacrifice or eat meat. They considered it unlawful to eat meat or make sacrifices with it. They claim that these Books are fictions, and that none of these customs were instituted by the fathers. This was the difference between the Nazarean and the others…[52]
After this Nazarean sect in turn comes another closely connected with them, called the Ossaeans. These are Jews like the former… originally came from Nabataea, Ituraea, Moabitis and Arielis, the lands beyond the basin of what sacred scripture called the Salt Sea… Though it is different from the other six of these seven sects, it causes schism only by forbidding the books of Moses like the Nazarean.[51]

http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/018...Essene.php

Quote: The objective of Jesus as the head of the Nazarenes was exactly what Christians have always said it was. He was trying to convert the sinners of Israel before the End. What has come to us of his attempt has come from some of his converts. He was a professional Essene, but preaching to the masses. The people who recorded Jesus’s doctrine had only a partial knowledge of it. He had no time to explain to them the finer points of Essene theology. His object was to have them repent and be ritually purified by baptism, ready for God’s Appointed Time, which would be soon! The Essenes had exactly the same aim. The differences are only apparent, because we have only an incomplete idea of the views of both Jesus and the Essenes, and the church has made its own changes later. What we do know overlaps far more than can be explained by accident.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/jlgi/jlgi05.htm


John the Baptist, the cousin of Yeshua was also a Nazarene Essene, and was in fact the leader of their branch until his death. Yeshua only took over after John was stoned.

http://www.essene.com/What is a Nazarene.htm





Now there are some differences between the Nazarene version of Essene as Yeshua and his followers are shown eating fish (in fact his early followers had been working as fishermen before leaving their families to follow the charismatic cult leader) while the Essene are strict vegetarians. Nazarenes also had a strong Messianic streak (in the true meaning of the term not the bastardised Paul of Tarsus meaning) they were politically motivated and Yeshua and John may have had designs on becoming high priest and King of Israel (John being High Priest and Yeshua becoming King) The fact that the later Roman writers sanitized the anti-gentile rebel from the character of Yeshua (one step in changing him into the Jesus Christ we know of today) is no real surprise as you can see in the Gospels themselves a shift to more anti-jewish pro-roman sentiment in the later books (John for instance is dripping with anti-semitism)

Okay, then. I'm finished with this "debate." To respond to me by throwing links and videos at me is an insult and an obvious indication of your incompetence.
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13-07-2013, 08:25 PM
RE: David Lee vs Revenant77x
David Lee has ended the debate. Thread closed.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
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Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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