David, The Theist
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18-10-2012, 01:11 PM
RE: David, The Theist
Umm... Jesus himself talks about hell ? Maybe if I read the links...
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18-10-2012, 01:14 PM
RE: David, The Theist
(18-10-2012 07:37 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Welcome, David, The Theist.
I am much more of an idefinite article myself... David, ATheist... but DLJ to my friends.

Thanks for the welcome.

(18-10-2012 07:37 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I must say what a resounding pleasure it is to meet here a theist who can actually string a grammatically correct sentence together (with a couple of minor exceptions) given the recent drive-by theist illiterates we have witnessed recently.

Only a couple minor exceptions? Either I'm doing a great deal better than usual or you haven't been paying enough attention, but I'll accept that. Thanks.

(18-10-2012 07:37 AM)DLJ Wrote:  This is very true, btw, it certainly applies to many of my Philippian (filipina) friends. Good food and fun times... definitely something to be encouraged.

Yes, so long as we don't get too carried away. If I don't use some moderation the only way I'm going to get carried away is in a crane. Drooling

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18-10-2012, 01:16 PM
RE: David, The Theist
(18-10-2012 01:03 PM)The Theist Wrote:  
(18-10-2012 07:16 AM)morondog Wrote:  Welcome Smile

Um... God as described in the Bible doesn't seem like a nice guy. Why do you worship him?

Lets clarify what do you mean by worship?

I believe the Bible as the word of Jehovah God. I trust it. The meaning of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation is this: The vindication of Jehovah God's name through the ransom sacrifice of Christ Jesus.

In a basic sense Jehovah created man to live forever in paradise without sickness or the slow decay of death. Man rejected it and raised the question of Jehovah's sovereignty. God allowed this issue to be settled. He stepped back only interfering to let us know what was going on and that there was a solution.

(18-10-2012 07:16 AM)morondog Wrote:  Is homosexuality really that bad ? I like gay guys. I like lesbians. God apparently wants to cook them? For what? Some human sticks his prong in the wrong hole and now it's all 'you're gonna burn for eternity' ? Why?

Good and bad are in the eyes of the beholder. I've been to the roadside hangouts and the gay bars, I've seen the broken lives and the betrayal. I've found it to be bad.

Hell, by the way, isn't a Bible teaching, it is pagan myth adopted by later Christianity.

The Reality Of Hell

Does Hell Exist? A response to the Skeptic's Annotated Bible.

So... gay guys don't burn? But they don't get cookies still? Or everyone goes to the happy place? Do you think it is *just* that God makes this arbitrary distinction, that he who bummeth his boyfriend is destined for sad times *after he's dead* ?

FYI I have many very good gay friends with no broken lives and no betrayal. Probably coming in the future, *as it does in almost everyone's life, be they gay or not*.
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18-10-2012, 01:37 PM
RE: David, The Theist
(18-10-2012 12:42 PM)The Theist Wrote:  I have debated thousands of atheists and theists online since 1996.

We're talking about scholars. Your "20 years" and "thousands" doesn't scare me. Your implication that 4/thousands are good enough for you, does not impress me.

(18-10-2012 12:42 PM)The Theist Wrote:  If I subscribed to the most prestigious academic institution they would probably tell me that the soul is immortal due to the influence of Greek philosophy in Jewish thinking about the time of Alexander the Great, and I read Ezekiel 18:4 that plainly says that the soul dies. Then some scholars disagree, noting the aforementioned influence.

We're not talking about souls yet. We're still talking "in general". No one said anything about "souls". However your presumption that there is any sort of "consensus" in mainline centers of academia on anything, is extremely presumptuous, AND that it would be reflected in a journal.

(18-10-2012 12:42 PM)The Theist Wrote:  Yes. As a deity. And why not? The term atheism itself is nonsensical because anything and anyone can be a god. A deity.

I see. Then we DO have nothing to discuss. YOU said you were a theist. That implies you have a deity. I see you have "all possible deities". THAT is not the Biblical god. So I assume you don't even know who, or what your god is. The position of atheist, that all gods seen so far, as seen so far, are dismissed, IS NOT THE SAME, and dismissal is not belief. That's typical theist crap.

Moses was NOT a real person. Since you say that, I see also we have nothing to discuss. There is no proof of Moses. Next, you'll be telling me he wrote the Pentateuch. Hahahaha.

(18-10-2012 12:42 PM)The Theist Wrote:  How many gods were mentioned by the Bible? What about Moses and the Judges of Israel, who were real people that existed. The atheist has to perform the intellectual gymnastics when it comes to an understanding of deity.

Nope. very easy. They're all crap, and all dismissed. Very simple.

Don't quote your scripture to atheists. It's circular reassoning. You must provide EXTERNAL *evidence* here. Scripture is "proof" of nothing. Zero. Nada. Zilch.

(18-10-2012 12:42 PM)The Theist Wrote:  Lets say a man makes his way across the open plains near death. Cold, hungry and tired. No fuel for lighting a fire for protection, warmth, cooking. He stumbles upon a dried pile of bison excrement. Beneath it are bugs for food. He lights it and keeps warm under the protection of the fire. He decides that this dung is his god. That dung, then, is a god.

Nope. It's still just dung.

(18-10-2012 12:42 PM)The Theist Wrote:  The Hebrew El means "Mighty One; Strong One," and is applied to Jehovah, to other gods and goddesses such as Baal, Satan, Molech, Dagon, Tammuz, and to men such as Moses, Jesus, and the Judges of Israel as well as angels. What about that do you object to, because you can shove it into any category or school of thought that you like, it doesn't change what the Bible says a god is.

It matters a great deal if "El" GOT there in the first place from somewhere else, and scholars know where it came from, and why, and how it got there. It didn't just "pop" up into Hebrew culture. I am not "confusing anything with anything. The origins are what one of my PhD theses is being done on. You pick the wrong dude to tell who is confusing what, here. Sorry. Don't patronize me with your "common mistake" bullshit.

(18-10-2012 02:27 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You are no theist sir. I don't know what you are, but you don't get to redefine words for your personal use, AND expect that they will have meaning to others.

Nope. YOU came here, saying YOU were a theist. We dismiss them all. Define yours, or STFU. Apparently you can't, even while maintaining you found truth in the Bible with the Biblical "god", (which was NOT a "pantheist" god). It changed a few times, but Yahweh is not Jehovah, and "any greater power" is NOT god, in the Bible.

The Bible is "mythology". But you don't even know what that means, in a non pejorative sense. It was, however assembled by humans who assembled it for very, and ONLY human reasons, which you NEED, (as in Psychology), NEED to slap your external meaning, and interpretation on, and then make ultimate claims about.

(18-10-2012 12:42 PM)The Theist Wrote:  No specific scholar. The Documentary Hypothesis is really poor scholarship for someone so obsessed with academia.

Hahahahaha. For someone who is "self-taught" dismissing the Documentary Hypothesis as "poor scholarship" is hilariously fatuous, and arrogant. It's like a grade schooler telling Einstein, "you're really dumb". Scholarship has come a LONG way from Wellhausen, and they are now based very much on Archaeology. "Quite the contrary" / sarcasm

(18-10-2012 12:42 PM)The Theist Wrote:  You are an intellectual who wants to believe the Bible is myth.

Damn right. I know it's a myth. No way you can see the mythic origins and buy into the crap as real.

(18-10-2012 12:42 PM)The Theist Wrote:  An exception to the community? I haven't been baptized, because who would baptize me? Apostate Christendom? Part of my method for not being led astray into heresy is avoiding organized religion and an over emphasis of the scholarly.

Bwahaha. That's what they all say.
Just like ole Joe Smith.

(18-10-2012 12:42 PM)The Theist Wrote:  I said that it was my opinion and that I may be wrong and that it didn't really matter because ultimately it has to do with sin.

It does matter. "Sin" involves moral choice. If it's not a choice, it's not a sin. Typical Biblical theist who does not know that the Garden myth, (Adam and Eve), is NOT about "sin". and "fall", but about "Chaos and Order", (taken from it's pre-Hebrew origins, which, apparently, your "self-teaching" has not discovered yet). Good luck.

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18-10-2012, 01:46 PM
RE: David, The Theist
Let me just reiterate, David...

As you can see from Bucky, you're not going to be able to give vague, wordy answers and think that the community is just going to go, "Ohhh okay".

You're not really answering questions as much as posting links to your site. We asked you a question, you're supposed to answer it; not post us a link so we have to fish around to try and find a semblance of an answer that we were looking for.

Giving a straight answer isn't hard... just... answer the question.

Also, as Bucky said, don't play the "common misconception" card. We're all pretty learned here, and in fact, we have some that are working on their PhD and are actual scholars in their field.

The fact that I see some problems with your Greek and Hebrew (in the freewill link) shows that you aren't immune to "common misconceptions" either. As your Greek is not correct.

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18-10-2012, 01:56 PM (This post was last modified: 18-10-2012 02:00 PM by Vosur.)
RE: David, The Theist
Welcome to TTA. I'm sure that we'll have the opportunity to have a discussion in the near future.

Until then, I have a question for you: Do you care to elaborate on your religious beliefs?

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18-10-2012, 01:59 PM
RE: David, The Theist
Careful careful Smile Don't let's scare him away.

The links were pretty good IMO. Need Bucky to comment on the idea that hell is a pagan concept. Still wanna know if God wants to burn people though 'cos I though the pit of doom in revelations was pretty explicit.

The Theist sirrah, you have been accused of your personal Greek being up the pole, how do you plead?

Any case, if God's a nice guy and *doesn't* care, and since he's not inclined to answer in any non-ambiguous way, is there any reason to worship him at all?

By the way, you said something about the definition of worship. I mean you know, let us pray, hallelujah, the Lord has blessed him, thank you Jesus for the lovely chow which not everyone gets *despite you being an omnipotent bastard*. That kinda worship.

*Do you* so worship, or have you found some other fancy definition, since there's nothing theists seem to love doing other than redefining commonly understood words within very narrow limits set by themselves Wink
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18-10-2012, 02:15 PM
RE: David, The Theist
I'm actually researching the idea of hell... and what the Bible says about it... so, we'll see what I get from it.

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18-10-2012, 02:33 PM
RE: David, The Theist
(18-10-2012 02:15 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'm actually researching the idea of hell... and what the Bible says about it... so, we'll see what I get from it.

Check out the trash pile outside ancient Jerusalem. It was always on fire. Full of every possible thing, including animal remains. It was called *Gehenna*.
Sound familiar. Consider

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Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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18-10-2012, 02:37 PM
RE: David, The Theist
(18-10-2012 12:42 PM)The Theist Wrote:  Yes. As a deity. And why not? The term atheism itself is nonsensical because anything and anyone can be a god. A deity.
I think there's a little bit of confusion on your part. The definitions of words change over time and their meaning is dependant on the context in which they are used, as well as on the cultural background of the person who is using them. In the case of atheism (a lack of belief in gods) the term "god" refers to a supernatural deity.

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