David, The Theist
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18-10-2012, 05:01 PM (This post was last modified: 18-10-2012 06:06 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: David, The Theist
Welcome Theist of the House Henson known as David.

(18-10-2012 09:18 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  As you see, God is an early Nihilist. Big Grin

And consequently far less refined and nuanced. Now prostate thyself before Girly the Son Of God, Carbon-60, lest the Son Of Man show you fear in a handful of dust.

(18-10-2012 03:03 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Say what you like about KC.......but that motherfucker knows his Greek!

Teehee ... teehee. Talk about a triple entendre. Big Grin

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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18-10-2012, 05:48 PM
RE: David, The Theist
(18-10-2012 08:18 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Welcome to our little corner of the net. You seem very articulate. I genuinely hope you stick around.

Be prepared to be a little overwhelmed at times. Many members here tend to get impatient with theists. It can get frustrating for both sides when one side of a debate has 50 people asking questions, and the other side has only one or two people to answer. Bear with us. We mean well. Wink

Oh, and look out for my friend Bucky Ball. He's wicked smart.

Thanks for the welcome Stark Raving, I'd like to stick around.
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18-10-2012, 05:49 PM
RE: David, The Theist
(18-10-2012 08:32 AM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  Welcome aboard David. If you post looking for sincere debate and feedback I think you'll be very happy with the quality of responses here. You'll see some theists here that come to troll or preach, that turns into a dogpile really fast.

Going from your first post I hope you stick around.

Thanks, KidCharlemagne, I appreciate the welcome.
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18-10-2012, 06:04 PM
RE: David, The Theist
(18-10-2012 01:14 PM)The Theist Wrote:  
(18-10-2012 07:37 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I must say what a resounding pleasure it is to meet here a theist who can actually string a grammatically correct sentence together (with a couple of minor exceptions) given the recent drive-by theist illiterates we have witnessed recently.

Only a couple minor exceptions? Either I'm doing a great deal better than usual or you haven't been paying enough attention, but I'll accept that. Thanks.

Seriously. Check out the threads started by e.g. Sinner's Prayer and JanusIV and you will feel pretty good about your skills. But yet... don't. The non sequiturs will make your head spin.

I won't go all pedantic on you but I do think you should correct the one in the web page sub-heading on this link you posted ... http://thetheist.org/agnostic/agnostictopics.html

Also on that page, there is reference to an atheist worldview. This bugs me. Of all the deistic/theistic folk I know, I rarely meet any two with the same opinions about everything. It is very much more pronounced with atheists... there seems to be only one thing they agree upon. This is hardly a worldview.
The "atheist worldview" is a theistic invention and generalisations do not converts make.


(18-10-2012 01:14 PM)The Theist Wrote:  
(18-10-2012 07:37 AM)DLJ Wrote:  This is very true, btw, it certainly applies to many of my Philippian (filipina) friends. Good food and fun times... definitely something to be encouraged.

Yes, so long as we don't get too carried away. If I don't use some moderation the only way I'm going to get carried away is in a crane. Drooling

I give you William Blake: "You never know what is enough, until you have had too much"

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18-10-2012, 06:11 PM
RE: David, The Theist
(18-10-2012 09:45 AM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  Hey there Dave, don't want to step in too far as I'm currently barely able to get on. You'll have more than enough theological discussions in the future. I do have one thing though which seems an important question for you.

As a product of biology I was born neither male nor female. My outward appearance primarily that of a male. As a baby I had a surgery to repair my genitals (an offence in itself that restricts me from jewish orthodoxy) this was necessary so that I could pee. While the state declared that I am male it in no way was an actual fact. I had multiple puberties before even getting the hormones necessary to keep my body in a stable mode. According to the book that you have chosen most wise I do not even exist as there are only two options available to all humanity. Any form of sexual interaction with me would be seen as a sin because I am not of one or the other. What makes you feel that by nature of being born inbetween I should be forced to lead a life in absolute service to god in fear of sinning by being myself?

The spirit creatures themselves as well as Jehovah God are without gender, neither male nor female. You say you are both. Is the restriction from Jewish orthodoxy a problem for you in that you are Jewish? Because one thing to consider is that the Law of Moses is no longer in effect, since Christ. (Jeremiah 31:31-34 / Hebrews 8:6-13) If you are able to have sex as a female with a male, or a male with a female then you are either male or female, what would be the problem? If you are unable to have sexual relations then you are without sin. If the only way that you can have sex is in a way unnatural to God then you would have only to make a choice which is important to you.

(18-10-2012 09:45 AM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  Hermaphroditic gods existed before Judaism so it is not likely to be something they just plain had no idea of. The Sumerians had hermaphroditic gods and were one of the religions most connected to the birth of Judaism. Why follow conscripts of sexuality that are so heavily biased? I have no hope of reproduction and am therefore not allowed to perform sexual acts due to the meaninglessness of them.

According to who? The church? Do you really think it wise to pay any attention to what they have to say on the subject?

"It was not until the second century C.E. that professed Christians began to adopt the Stoic rule which dictated that the sole lawful purpose of marital intercourse was procreation. This was a philosophical rather than a Biblical reasoning, and through the ages various Catholic theologians expanded upon it, the result of which was that sexual pleasure between married couples except for the purpose of procreation was considered sinful and immoral. Not until the 13th century did Pope Gregory IX enact the first legislation by a pope against contraception. Again, the Bible doesn't teach this. Proverbs 5:18-19 says; "to be blessed and rejoice with the wife of your youth . . . Let her own breasts intoxicate you at all times. With her love may you be in an ecstasy constantly." Source

(18-10-2012 09:45 AM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  I see no reason that you should take sexual descriptions that force you to heavily ignore bodily needs. You may find what you did in the past disgusting at this point, but I bet you still think about it. The human mind has a wonderful ability to contradict itself and to simply deny a need is to torture yourself in a way that won't end until your death.

I'm fine with it.
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18-10-2012, 06:13 PM
RE: David, The Theist
(18-10-2012 06:04 PM)DLJ Wrote:  I give you William Blake: "You never know what is enough, until you have had too much"

The fuck DLJ, that's what practice is for. Big Grin

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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18-10-2012, 06:28 PM (This post was last modified: 18-10-2012 06:54 PM by Vosur.)
RE: David, The Theist
(18-10-2012 06:04 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Also on that page, there is reference to an atheist worldview. This bugs me. Of all the deistic/theistic folk I know, I rarely meet any two with the same opinions about everything. It is very much more pronounced with atheists... there seems to be only one thing they agree upon. This is hardly a worldview.
The "atheist worldview" is a theistic invention and generalisations do not converts make.
This. There's only one thing that all atheists have in common, which is a lack of belief in god(s). Anything beyond that point is the choice of an individual. For example, there are atheists who believe in dualism, new age woo or an afterlife. Our philosophy and politics sections show just how different the views of atheists about everything but the question of whether or not there is a god really are. It's a common misconception that there is a consensus among atheists about anything but said question.

For this reason, neither an "atheist world view" nor an "atheist view" exist. The Theists claim that
thetheist.org Wrote:The atheist rejects this, amazingly, because they have their own world view which they, like the majority of Christians, wish to uphold. So anything I tell them is simply dismissed as a disagreement or a threat to their own paradigm. [sic]
is an incorrect, and above all, unfounded generalization.

(18-10-2012 06:11 PM)The Theist Wrote:  Because one thing to consider is that the Law of Moses is no longer in effect, since Christ. (Jeremiah 31:31-34 / Hebrews 8:6-13)
Quite the opposite.

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18-10-2012, 06:45 PM
RE: David, The Theist
(18-10-2012 12:26 PM)morondog Wrote:  Bump.

Why worship a God who's so callous as to condemn people to eternal suffering for a harmless act ?

What exactly makes you think that God condemns people to eternal suffering for any act? If sin brought death to all men then death is the end of sin. Romans 6:7 "For he who has died has been acquitted from sin."

(18-10-2012 12:26 PM)morondog Wrote:  This not limited to homosexuality but including sex before marriage, 100 gazillion other prohibitions about what you can do with your equipment. Then a whole bunch of other random rules. No heaven for people who think I'm a made up pack of human lies. Why would God (btw the guy who apparently made the Andromeda galaxy, which can fit billions of Earths) care about what some ants stuck on a speck of dirt think of him? Why would he intensely monitor and control their lives?

I think maybe you have a great deal of confusion because of organized religion.

(18-10-2012 12:26 PM)morondog Wrote:  You'll notice I'm not even getting into the God exists debate. Let God exist. Why would you worship a nasty God like him ? Who refuses to show himself, leaves a cryptic half assed book behind, and says that anyone who doesn't think *exactly* as I say is gonna get burned?

Burned? More religious nonsense.

(18-10-2012 12:26 PM)morondog Wrote:  Free will ? I give you free will to think as you like and shoot you if you think wrongly ? Yeah, justice right there.

Dude. You studied the bible for how long. Did you not consider these questions? You must have. Ergo, you have an answer, right? Share it with us benighted heathens, that we too may know the joy that is Christ?

You might be getting a sarcastic tone. I apologize. I am restraining myself with great difficulty from expressing myself more... fruitily. I know that comes across as hostile. It really isn't. It's just... sometimes this self assured "Oh I've read the bible and I have never once in all my years found cause to doubt it" attitude... How do you know that next year you won't (find cause to doubt it) ? I get frustrated... sometimes.

Here is my advice to you. If you are an atheist who is skeptical of the Bible take an honest look at it without the blinders of organized religion. Or, don't waste another moment on the subject. Because, it seems, you are having some difficulties with what other people believe regarding what you think is a fairy tale? That doesn't seem logical to me, does it to you?
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18-10-2012, 06:50 PM
RE: David, The Theist
(18-10-2012 01:11 PM)morondog Wrote:  Umm... Jesus himself talks about hell ? Maybe if I read the links...

Jesus talks about haides and gehenna. Yes, please do read the links.
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18-10-2012, 06:58 PM
RE: David, The Theist
(18-10-2012 06:11 PM)The Theist Wrote:  Because one thing to consider is that the Law of Moses is no longer in effect, since Christ. (Jeremiah 31:31-34 / Hebrews 8:6-13) If you are able to have sex as a female with a male, or a male with a female then you are either male or female, what would be the problem? If you are unable to have sexual relations then you are without sin. If the only way that you can have sex is in a way unnatural to God then you would have only to make a choice which is important to you.


Matthew 5:18
"I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

Everything is not accomplished. Therefore the "Law" is still in effect.

I would think someone who told themself they followed the New Testament, would do what Jeebus said not what his followers cooked up.

If "one" abomination is out, then they are all out. If one is in, they are all in. What is the criteria for abomination retention/exclusion ?

Nothing in nature is "unnatural to god". Same sex behaviors exist in nature, in every species on the planet. The text does NOT say "unnatural to god". It says it's an "abomination" or "offensive thing", to God, (just like eating shrimp). How many theists eat shrimp, or even care ?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...122106.htm
The reason it's there is a 100% culturally relative matter.

Why does a human text, written by humans, say anything about the subject, at all ? Because it was useful for organizing society. That's the ONLY reason it was placed in the text by the Judean priests who placed it there, and it was placed there NOT because a god told them to put it there, but because the culture of the day forbade it for status reasons, (of male vs female). The authors of Leviticus were concerned with equality. A penetrated male was seen to have lost status, thus lost his equality. The injunction was a concern with equality, and it is ironic it is now turned on it's head, and used for precisely the opposite reason, and promotes IN-equality.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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