Dealing with death
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06-07-2017, 10:42 AM
Dealing with death
I talked to my mom last night (6 Jul), and found out my grandpa passed away that morning. I didn't know him that well, as I can only remember seeing him a couple of days out of the year, and I had stopped seeing him when I got to high school. I invited him to my wedding, but he did not come. That should give you a good idea of the relationship.

The real issue to me was the phone conversation with my mom. She is a Christian fundie, and a member of the Church (Cult?) of Christ. I expected the usual god stuff, but then she goes into "well, god's love is great and his mercy large, or something, and maybe he has forgiveness." Mind you I didn't know much about my grandpa, but I did know he practiced the Christian faith. Baptist, I think. My mom continues on and all but said the man is in hell because he was not the right kind of Christian. It was easy to know what she meant.

After the call, I sat the phone down, and teared up. Not for my grandpa, but for my mom. She is stuck in a trap. Never able to remember the good about her father, but just to imagine him in pain and agony because he was not CoC. She can't have any closure, and the faith she follows won't even let her con herself into remembering him well because he was not in her branch of Jesus. The level of toxicity amazes me.
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06-07-2017, 10:53 AM
RE: Dealing with death
It's too bad that you're forced to deal with someone's narcissistic obsession that they're best buddies with the creator of the universe.

The upside is you aren't as likely to put anyone else through the same.

That seems comforting to me anyway.....

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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06-07-2017, 11:07 AM
RE: Dealing with death
I would try to comfort my mom by using quotes from the Bible itself: i.e., speak to her in her language.
(If it helps, imagine yourself talking about Santa to a five-year-old)

There's bound to be something in her "good book" about the "all-merciful god" "god's mercy is boundless" "unknown are the ways of the Lord" blah blah blah. Focus on that, but don't get into an argument.

There's no point in trying to dis-illusion her; now is not the time to discuss your atheism since she's going through a hard enough time in losing a parent, but hopefully your citations will make her feel better, which in turn will make you feel better.

Simply being there to listen, without judging, can be very helpful.

Failing that, tell her to go see a (hopefully sympathetic) friend from her church for help.
Good luck.

“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”
― Bertrand Russell
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06-07-2017, 11:53 AM
RE: Dealing with death
So sorry for all involved. Hug Heart
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06-07-2017, 01:17 PM
RE: Dealing with death
(06-07-2017 11:07 AM)Reducetarian Wrote:  I would try to comfort my mom by using quotes from the Bible itself: i.e., speak to her in her language.
(If it helps, imagine yourself talking about Santa to a five-year-old)

There's bound to be something in her "good book" about the "all-merciful god" "god's mercy is boundless" "unknown are the ways of the Lord" blah blah blah. Focus on that, but don't get into an argument.

There's no point in trying to dis-illusion her; now is not the time to discuss your atheism since she's going through a hard enough time in losing a parent, but hopefully your citations will make her feel better, which in turn will make you feel better.

Simply being there to listen, without judging, can be very helpful.

Failing that, tell her to go see a (hopefully sympathetic) friend from her church for help.
Good luck.

This. You can remind her of revelation, where there's a scene where Jesus says something on the lines of "All you fuckers who said you were my friend, you never helped anyone, you just spent your time being uber-fucking-religious, so fuck you. Hey, all you other fuckers who actually helped people and made a difference in the world. You're my real people." Then he kinda spoils it by *really* fucking up everyone he dislikes, but the message is clear. A lot of people who you'd think wouldn't make it into heaven on the basis of not having the right beliefs etc, actually will. Whereas a lot of people who only care about stupid shit like which is the right sect to be part of will be fucked-over hard come the end times.

Then all you need to do is convince her that grandad was a good guy and you're set Smile

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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06-07-2017, 01:20 PM
RE: Dealing with death
I think Reducetarian gave some great advice. I'm sorry to hear about your grandpa *hugs*
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06-07-2017, 01:39 PM
RE: Dealing with death
I am very sorry. When former members of a cult realize that the cult members consider them sinners and damned to hell after death, it can be rather stunning for them.

Don't know if you were or your grandpa was, but the revelation is still shocking to consider. At least she did not shun him as JWs would for major transgressions against what they feel is sin. It seems to me that some cults are always hopeful for a member's return to the "true faith."

My son-in-law recently encountered this when he found out that his family is happy he is heterosexual because otherwise they would have to cut all contact with him. And...he was shocked. Somehow he thought there was some kind of unconditional love that would keep them considering him as family, no matter what. So very sad.

You know how much discussion you can handle with your mother and whether it is worth it to try. I would just leave it and save yourself more grief. Accept what she is and accept whatever familial love she is capable of sharing with you. And...maybe wait and as time passes, she may be more likely to discuss her religion with you in a critical manner.

-Jeanne

"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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07-07-2017, 02:21 AM
RE: Dealing with death
(06-07-2017 10:42 AM)deerseed Wrote:  I talked to my mom last night (6 Jul), and found out my grandpa passed away that morning. I didn't know him that well, as I can only remember seeing him a couple of days out of the year, and I had stopped seeing him when I got to high school. I invited him to my wedding, but he did not come. That should give you a good idea of the relationship.

The real issue to me was the phone conversation with my mom. She is a Christian fundie, and a member of the Church (Cult?) of Christ. I expected the usual god stuff, but then she goes into "well, god's love is great and his mercy large, or something, and maybe he has forgiveness." Mind you I didn't know much about my grandpa, but I did know he practiced the Christian faith. Baptist, I think. My mom continues on and all but said the man is in hell because he was not the right kind of Christian. It was easy to know what she meant.

After the call, I sat the phone down, and teared up. Not for my grandpa, but for my mom. She is stuck in a trap. Never able to remember the good about her father, but just to imagine him in pain and agony because he was not CoC. She can't have any closure, and the faith she follows won't even let her con herself into remembering him well because he was not in her branch of Jesus. The level of toxicity amazes me.

Hi deerseed,

Oh dear, what a sad thing.

Of course some parents fail badly, and leave casualties behind them. Sounds like this has happened to your Mum.

At the end of the day, religion or no, I think that forgiveness brings peace. You obviously love your Mum and that is all that is required. Your Mum will likely grieve for a long time, and say all kinds of crazy things. Just listen and love.

That's my 2p.

D.
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07-07-2017, 07:49 AM
RE: Dealing with death
First, I want to say thank you all for the advice.

I've only been out of religion for a year or so. I slowly started to wake up about three years ago. Before that, I had been highly involved with the Church of Christ since I can remember. I now call it the Cult of Christ because they show more cult-like tendencies than the average denomination. I just look at myself now and realize how much of an idiot I was and what ass I sounded like.

I have no desire to try to deconvert her, especially at this time. I love her dearly. I'd feel terrible for trying to take advantage of the situation, and I also now realize she has never moved beyond him leaving when she was younger. Combine toxic beliefs with unaddressed emotions, and you have a bad situation
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