Dear Presidential voters...
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04-09-2012, 08:33 PM
Dear Presidential voters...
According to the position of the presidency in the United States what makes you think a president can do any of the following?

Fix the economy
Solve the health care problem
Solve the education problem
Balance the budget
Fix welfare
Make abortion legal/illegal
Etc..

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States

After analyzing the role of congress balancing out the other branches it seem impossible that a president could do any of these things with out having full support of the congress/senate.

The only way to do anything about these issues is to put some law in effect.

Maybe your real focus should be on congress?

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05-09-2012, 12:50 AM
RE: Dear Presidential voters...
So the stellar economic performance of the 90s was all because of the GOP control of both the House and Senate? I'm with you so far. And the crash in the economy at the end of the Bush admin was because the Dems had both the House and Senate? And the economy went from tailspin to flatline when GOP took one of the two chambers in the midterm?

Hey, your theory at least when applied to the most recent three presidents seems to make a lot of sense.

Reagan was able to achieve his priorities with a Congress of the other party through his leadership. Obama hasn't been particularly good at this. Bush Jr was ok at it, as was Clinton.
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05-09-2012, 07:33 AM
RE: Dear Presidential voters...
(05-09-2012 12:50 AM)BryanS Wrote:  So the stellar economic performance of the 90s was all because of the GOP control of both the House and Senate? I'm with you so far. And the crash in the economy at the end of the Bush admin was because the Dems had both the House and Senate? And the economy went from tailspin to flatline when GOP took one of the two chambers in the midterm?

Hey, your theory at least when applied to the most recent three presidents seems to make a lot of sense.

Reagan was able to achieve his priorities with a Congress of the other party through his leadership. Obama hasn't been particularly good at this. Bush Jr was ok at it, as was Clinton.

fstratzero and I are both political moderates. The pathetic party wars are disgusting.

Obama's policies were deflected by the Republican congress in their gambit for the White House.

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05-09-2012, 01:38 PM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2012 01:54 PM by Diablo666.)
RE: Dear Presidential voters...
(05-09-2012 12:50 AM)BryanS Wrote:  So the stellar economic performance of the 90s was all because of the GOP control of both the House and Senate? I'm with you so far. And the crash in the economy at the end of the Bush admin was because the Dems had both the House and Senate? And the economy went from tailspin to flatline when GOP took one of the two chambers in the midterm?

Hey, your theory at least when applied to the most recent three presidents seems to make a lot of sense.

Reagan was able to achieve his priorities with a Congress of the other party through his leadership. Obama hasn't been particularly good at this. Bush Jr was ok at it, as was Clinton.
Your theory is that the dems crashed the ecnonomy the millisecond they got in office? LOL
Interesting, seeing as it had already began collapsing long before that.
I think "Bill Clinton" is who you were trying to think when you talked about the success of the 90s.
Ohh and just so you know. Reagan was a mediocre president at best, and was more or less just a old senile puppet for the aristocrats to control. Though it wasn't all his fault, he had to have someone drag him around by his Johnson, seeing as he had advanced Alzheimer's in his later years. He is greatly to blame for the downturn of the US's economy and the ever growing disparity of wealth of the last 30 years, and for years to come. Ohh yah one last thing, by today's shifted standards, Reagan would be a liberal, and he may very well be the worst president we have ever had.

You suck at life, reroll.
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05-09-2012, 01:44 PM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2012 02:09 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: Dear Presidential voters...
Actually no that is a strawman.

However I do feel like the arguments presented rely on a faulty and twisted idea of how the government in america actually works. I will do some research and update this post.

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05-09-2012, 02:21 PM
RE: Dear Presidential voters...



Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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05-09-2012, 07:54 PM
RE: Dear Presidential voters...
(05-09-2012 01:38 PM)Diablo666 Wrote:  Your theory is that the dems crashed the ecnonomy the millisecond they got in office? LOL
Interesting, seeing as it had already began collapsing long before that.
I think "Bill Clinton" is who you were trying to think when you talked about the success of the 90s.
Ohh and just so you know. Reagan was a mediocre president at best, and was more or less just a old senile puppet for the aristocrats to control. Though it wasn't all his fault, he had to have someone drag him around by his Johnson, seeing as he had advanced Alzheimer's in his later years. He is greatly to blame for the downturn of the US's economy and the ever growing disparity of wealth of the last 30 years, and for years to come. Ohh yah one last thing, by today's shifted standards, Reagan would be a liberal, and he may very well be the worst president we have ever had.

You suck at life, reroll.

Someone doesn't understand satire. I was ridiculing the suggestion that this president can lay the blame at the feet of a Republican House for all his failings.

And ad hominem is such an effective argument. (since reading comprehension and discerning context is so difficult for you, I might as clarify for you that this statement is meant to be ironic).

have a nice day Smile
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05-09-2012, 08:09 PM
RE: Dear Presidential voters...
(05-09-2012 02:21 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  


My point is leadership matters a lot as well. Here is a current story about Bob Woodward's up and coming book that explores the budget negotiations between Boehner and Obama. I'll highlight some of the wonderful examples of leadership from this president:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bob-woodw...EgC7UIyG-R

Quote:When Boehner finally did call back, he jettisoned the entire deal. Obama lost his famous cool, according to Woodward, with a "flash of pure fury" coming from the president; one staffer in the room said Obama gripped the phone so tightly he thought he would break it.

"He was spewing coals," Boehner told Woodward, in what is described as a borderline "presidential tirade."

"He was pissed…. He wasn't going to get a damn dime more out of me. He knew how far out on a limb I was. But he was hot. It was clear to me that coming to an agreement with him was not going to happen, and that I had to go to Plan B."


Plenty of blame to go around, no doubt. President cool certainly didn't live up to the hype.

Quote:Intriguingly, Cantor and Biden frequently had "private asides" after larger meetings, according to Woodward. After one of them, Woodward writes that Biden told Cantor: "You know, if I were doing this, I'd do it totally different."

"Well, if I were running the Republican conference, I'd do it totally different," Cantor replied, according to Woodward.

Woodward writes: "They agreed that if they were in charge, they could come to a deal."

With the president taking charge, though, Obama found that he had little history with members of Congress to draw on. His administration's early decision to forego bipartisanship for the sake of speed around the stimulus bill was encapsulated by his then-chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel: "We have the votes. F--- 'em," he's quoted in the book as saying.

All that bi-partisan hope, dashed when Obama steamrolled the GOP early on. Sure sounds like Biden felt his experience negotiating deals with the GOP could have produced a deal if Obama wasn't in charge .

Quote:Obama's relationship with Democrats wasn't always much better. Woodward recounts an episode early in his presidency when then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid were hammering out final details of the stimulus bill.

Obama phoned in to deliver a "high-minded message," he writes. Obama went on so long that Pelosi "reached over and pressed the mute button on her phone," so they could continue to work without the president hearing that they weren't paying attention.

As debt negotiations progressed, Democrats complained of being out of the loop, not knowing where the White House stood on major points. Rep. Chris Van Hollen, D-Md., the ranking Democrat on the House Budget Committee, is described as having a "growing feeling of incredulity" as negotiations meandered.

Not that Obama did much better communicating with his own team.

Quote:One important moment in the negotiations came when the president scheduled a major address on the nation's long-term debt crisis. A White House staffer thought to invite House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan, R-Wis., along with the other two House Republicans who had served on the Simpson-Bowles debt commission.

The president delivered a blistering address, taking apart the Ryan budget plan as "changing the basic social compact in America." Ryan left the speech "genuinely ripped," Woodward writes, feeling that Obama was engaged in "game-on demagoguery" rather than trying to work with the new Republican majority.

"I can't believe you poisoned the well like that," Ryan told Obama economic adviser Gene Sperling on his way out of the speech.

The president told Woodward that he wasn't aware that Ryan was in the audience, and he called inviting him there "a mistake."

If he had known, Obama told Woodard, "I might have modified some of it so that we would leave more negotiations open, because I do think that they felt like we were trying to embarrass him… We made a mistake."

Fine example of tin eared incompetence. To this day, nobody on the GOP side thinks this move by the Obama admin was anything but intentional. If it wasn't intentional, he lost any good will he had with this ham handed move. But Obama has a pattern of doing this to his opponents, so mostly his opponents think he is not someone that one can negotiate with in good faith. This makes him an ineffective leader.
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05-09-2012, 08:48 PM
RE: Dear Presidential voters...
(05-09-2012 08:09 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(05-09-2012 02:21 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  


My point is leadership matters a lot as well. Here is a current story about Bob Woodward's up and coming book that explores the budget negotiations between Boehner and Obama. I'll highlight some of the wonderful examples of leadership from this president:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bob-woodw...EgC7UIyG-R

Quote:When Boehner finally did call back, he jettisoned the entire deal. Obama lost his famous cool, according to Woodward, with a "flash of pure fury" coming from the president; one staffer in the room said Obama gripped the phone so tightly he thought he would break it.

"He was spewing coals," Boehner told Woodward, in what is described as a borderline "presidential tirade."

"He was pissed…. He wasn't going to get a damn dime more out of me. He knew how far out on a limb I was. But he was hot. It was clear to me that coming to an agreement with him was not going to happen, and that I had to go to Plan B."


Plenty of blame to go around, no doubt. President cool certainly didn't live up to the hype.

Quote:Intriguingly, Cantor and Biden frequently had "private asides" after larger meetings, according to Woodward. After one of them, Woodward writes that Biden told Cantor: "You know, if I were doing this, I'd do it totally different."

"Well, if I were running the Republican conference, I'd do it totally different," Cantor replied, according to Woodward.

Woodward writes: "They agreed that if they were in charge, they could come to a deal."

With the president taking charge, though, Obama found that he had little history with members of Congress to draw on. His administration's early decision to forego bipartisanship for the sake of speed around the stimulus bill was encapsulated by his then-chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel: "We have the votes. F--- 'em," he's quoted in the book as saying.

All that bi-partisan hope, dashed when Obama steamrolled the GOP early on. Sure sounds like Biden felt his experience negotiating deals with the GOP could have produced a deal if Obama wasn't in charge .

Quote:Obama's relationship with Democrats wasn't always much better. Woodward recounts an episode early in his presidency when then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid were hammering out final details of the stimulus bill.

Obama phoned in to deliver a "high-minded message," he writes. Obama went on so long that Pelosi "reached over and pressed the mute button on her phone," so they could continue to work without the president hearing that they weren't paying attention.

As debt negotiations progressed, Democrats complained of being out of the loop, not knowing where the White House stood on major points. Rep. Chris Van Hollen, D-Md., the ranking Democrat on the House Budget Committee, is described as having a "growing feeling of incredulity" as negotiations meandered.

Not that Obama did much better communicating with his own team.

Quote:One important moment in the negotiations came when the president scheduled a major address on the nation's long-term debt crisis. A White House staffer thought to invite House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan, R-Wis., along with the other two House Republicans who had served on the Simpson-Bowles debt commission.

The president delivered a blistering address, taking apart the Ryan budget plan as "changing the basic social compact in America." Ryan left the speech "genuinely ripped," Woodward writes, feeling that Obama was engaged in "game-on demagoguery" rather than trying to work with the new Republican majority.

"I can't believe you poisoned the well like that," Ryan told Obama economic adviser Gene Sperling on his way out of the speech.

The president told Woodward that he wasn't aware that Ryan was in the audience, and he called inviting him there "a mistake."

If he had known, Obama told Woodard, "I might have modified some of it so that we would leave more negotiations open, because I do think that they felt like we were trying to embarrass him… We made a mistake."

Fine example of tin eared incompetence. To this day, nobody on the GOP side thinks this move by the Obama admin was anything but intentional. If it wasn't intentional, he lost any good will he had with this ham handed move. But Obama has a pattern of doing this to his opponents, so mostly his opponents think he is not someone that one can negotiate with in good faith. This makes him an ineffective leader.

I think you are missing the point of how moot a president can be.

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05-09-2012, 09:00 PM
RE: Dear Presidential voters...
(05-09-2012 08:48 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  I think you are missing the point of how moot a president can be.

The office hasn't earned the nickname of the bully pulpit without reason. The president's veto pen is very powerful. The president has the power to nominate all the key positions of his cabinet (with Senate oversight of course) and direct federal agencies. I agree that the House and Senate are very important. The sex scandal crap was a problem, but the GOP otherwise made Clinton better on policy than if he didn't have them to hold his policies in check. And Clinton prevented the GOP from getting too crazy with the exercise of his veto pen.
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