Dear Western Atheists (From an ex-muslim)
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04-04-2017, 03:22 PM
RE: Dear Western Atheists (From an ex-muslim)
I don't see that the government of Saudi Arabia, for instance, would give a single shit about what American atheists might say. We cannot even get our own legislatures to listen to us, what makes you think we can get the attention of a foreign government?
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04-04-2017, 03:34 PM
Dear Western Atheists (From an ex-muslim)
My Objective Critique of Islam
1)Incompatiblity with Science
-https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Er..._the_Quran

2)Morality & Human Rights Violations
-Gender Equality:
Sura 4 Verse 34:
Men have authority over women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

Sura 4 Verse 11:
And for you is half of what your wives leave if they have no child. But if they have a child, for you is one fourth of what they leave, after any bequest they [may have] made or debt. And for the wives is one fourth if you leave no child. But if you leave a child, then for them is an eighth of what you leave, after any bequest you [may have] made or debt. And if a man or woman leaves neither ascendants nor descendants but has a brother or a sister, then for each one of them is a sixth. But if they are more than two, they share a third, after any bequest which was made or debt, as long as there is no detriment [caused]. [This is] an ordinance from Allah , and Allah is Knowing and Forbearing.

To summarize it: The daughter receives half the inheritance of her brother.
Sura 33 Verse 59:
O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

Sahih Bukhari 6:301:

"I have not seen any one more deficient in intelligence and religion than yours. A cautious, sensible man could be led astray by some of you."
The women asked: "O Allah's Apostle, what is deficient in our intelligence and religion? "
He said: "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?"
They replied in the affirmative. He said: "This is the deficiency of your intelligence"...
"Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?"
The women replied in the affirmative.
He said:"This is the deficiency in your religion."


Muhammad molested Aisha when she was 9.
-Treatment of queer and transgendered folks:
Qur'an 4:16
If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.
-Supression of Freedom of Expression:
Qur'an Sura 33:57-61:
Surely (as for) those who speak evil things of Allah and His Messenger, Allah has cursed them in this world and the here after, and He has prepared for them a chastisement bringing disgrace. And those who speak evil things of the believing men and the believing women without their having earned (it), they are guilty indeed of a false accusation and a manifest sin.
O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease and the agitators in the city do not desist, We shall most certainly set you over them, then they shall not be your neighbors in it but for a little while;
Cursed: wherever they are found they shall be seized and murdered, a (horrible) murdering.


Sura 5:33:
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.

-Sex:
Sura 17:32:
Nor come nigh to fornication/adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).
The penalty for premarital sex is 100 lashes, and for extramarital stoning till death.

Masturbation is sinful and harmful to a person's sexuality according to Islam.
-Discrimination Against Jews & Christians:
Qur'an 9:29:
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

-Penalty for the Apostasy:
Qur'an 3:90-91:
Surely, those who disbelieve after their believing, then increase in unbelief, their repentance shall not be accepted, and these are they that go astray. Surely, those who disbelieve and die while they are unbelievers, the earth full of gold shall not be accepted from one of them, though he should offer to ransom himself with it, these it is who shall have a painful chastisement, and they shall have no helpers.

-Treatment of Polytheists(Including some Christian denominations):
Qur'an 9:5:
And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

-Atheism:
Qur'an 8:12:
[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."
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07-04-2017, 01:56 AM
RE: Dear Western Atheists (From an ex-muslim)
(04-04-2017 03:22 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I don't see that the government of Saudi Arabia, for instance, would give a single shit about what American atheists might say. We cannot even get our own legislatures to listen to us, what makes you think we can get the attention of a foreign government?
If u want to improve the status of ex-muslims in the Arab world.
You should pressure your government to stop supporting Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia is funding American Universities,which have become safe spaces thanks to SJWs instead of intellectual space for debate and exchanging ideas.
And in the western world, if you criticize Islam you are immediately called an Islamophobe.
Phobia is an irrational medical mental illness.
The fear of Islam is justified.
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07-04-2017, 02:00 AM
RE: Dear Western Atheists (From an ex-muslim)
(07-04-2017 01:56 AM)Ibrahim95128 Wrote:  Saudi Arabia is funding American Universities,which have become safe spaces thanks to SJWs instead of intellectual space for debate and exchanging ideas.

Facepalm

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07-04-2017, 02:08 AM
RE: Dear Western Atheists (From an ex-muslim)
(07-04-2017 02:00 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(07-04-2017 01:56 AM)Ibrahim95128 Wrote:  Saudi Arabia is funding American Universities,which have become safe spaces thanks to SJWs instead of intellectual space for debate and exchanging ideas.

Facepalm
https://www.theguardian.com/education/20...l-students

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07-04-2017, 02:13 AM
RE: Dear Western Atheists (From an ex-muslim)
1: Ain't my jam.
2: Muslims I have known are far, far, FAR less annoying then Christians I have known.

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07-04-2017, 02:27 AM
RE: Dear Western Atheists (From an ex-muslim)
(07-04-2017 02:08 AM)Ibrahim95128 Wrote:  
(07-04-2017 02:00 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Facepalm
https://www.theguardian.com/education/20...l-students

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That is a British paper about British schools. Or do you not know the difference between the United States and Great Britain?

No credit for partial work.

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07-04-2017, 03:16 AM (This post was last modified: 07-04-2017 05:29 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Dear Western Atheists (From an ex-muslim)
(07-04-2017 02:08 AM)Ibrahim95128 Wrote:  
(07-04-2017 02:00 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Facepalm
https://www.theguardian.com/education/20...l-students

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Also, I have to be suspicious of a supposedly former Muslim atheist giving shit over safe spaces and SJW's in western universities, as if their very presence is somehow anathema.

What wouldn't you give to have a safe space to challenge Islam in Saudi Arabia? Free from being shouted down, heckled, arrested, or executed? How little value you see in the possibilities of such an idea. Of course things are a bit flipped in a society that values free speech, but that doesn't invalidate it. They've quietly existed for decades. Group counseling is also a safe space where those who share the same problems can talk among themselves without fear of repercussion. Catholic confession is a de facto safe space sanctioned by their god, for fuck's sake...

Funny how people didn't really get up in arms until the LGBTQ crowd thought it was a keen idea. Dodgy

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07-04-2017, 07:39 AM
RE: Dear Western Atheists (From an ex-muslim)
(07-04-2017 01:56 AM)Ibrahim95128 Wrote:  
(04-04-2017 03:22 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  I don't see that the government of Saudi Arabia, for instance, would give a single shit about what American atheists might say. We cannot even get our own legislatures to listen to us, what makes you think we can get the attention of a foreign government?
If u want to improve the status of ex-muslims in the Arab world.
You should pressure your government to stop supporting Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia is funding American Universities,which have become safe spaces thanks to SJWs instead of intellectual space for debate and exchanging ideas.
And in the western world, if you criticize Islam you are immediately called an Islamophobe.
Phobia is an irrational medical mental illness.
The fear of Islam is justified.

First off, I gotta admit that whenever I see someone write "SJW", warning lights light up on my control panel. It's not often I've read someone using that term who wasn't in the end irredeemably biased. I don't know if that's the case with you; just thought I'd share that.

Now, as to your point, who's to say that I don't apply pressure to my government to stop supporting the House of Saud ... and Israel for that matter? I think the sooner America quits meddling in the Middle East the better off we'll be. However, the assumption that voter pressure can assure political results is, as I pointed out earlier, a touch naive. American politicians listen to donors, not voters.

Secondly, I don't know where in the Western world you live, but here in Texas the only people I hear using the term "Islamophobe" are college students -- hardly representative of society at large. Perhaps you should change the culture wherever in the West you live so that you can speak out freely?
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07-04-2017, 08:47 AM
RE: Dear Western Atheists (From an ex-muslim)
(04-04-2017 11:11 AM)Ibrahim95128 Wrote:  As u know from my profile and threads that I am an ex-Muslim, we ex-muslim atheists value your courage and bravery for being critical of Christianity, Christian fundies, young earth creationists.
But you folks have freedom of expression, we atheists living in Muslim countries have no rights, we are the most likely to be killed by ISIL & Al Qaeda, before they invade USA, France, UK Germany etc.
I think it is about time to wage war against Islam, there are millions of us in Arab & Islamic countries.
And I know how atheists are very vocal, and you should use your voices to help us with reforming our laws in the Arab world.
Thank you, in advance.

This gentleman seems to have done just fine as an atheist living in Lebanon, a religiously diverse society, not under ISIL or Al Qaeda control. Do you have any evidence that atheists are being killed in Lebanon?
Quote:I lived for a time off of Makdessi Street in Hamra in Beirut, Lebanon. I was open about my atheism in Lebanon, even identifying myself as an atheist on official Lebanese government forms. In fact, I found the Lebanese people were either atheists themselves or completely non-judgmental about atheists. Lebanon has been fractured along sectarian lines for decades, maybe longer, and it came as no surprise to me that many would view atheism as an acceptable alternative to religion.
https://atheistpapers.com/2013/12/14/can...n-lebanon/

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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