Death
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07-08-2013, 01:04 AM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2013 01:14 AM by Luminon.)
RE: Death
(06-08-2013 07:59 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  It seems almost certainly not to me unless you've backed up the software to the cloud. Software dies with the hardware unless it's been backed up. ... Can we get there? Probably. Does Girly want any part of it? Probably not. Realizing and fully appreciating how temporary I am is pretty much all that keeps me going.
Well, you're lucky to be so self-sufficient in your current abilities. I am trying to figure out if my example for Hughsie is worth something. I heard that in religious families a family member is in a much better situation to lose fear of hell, if he knows at least one other family member who's not a believer. I reckon it might be similar with atheism, death and woo woo Smile

I'd say I had a proof enough that there is multiple backing up. Multiple "bodies" permeating one another as Russian dolls. And above them all, the superconsciousness as the ultimate impersonal guarantee. I know it's not 100 %, I might be imagining and hallucinating all of my life, including the personal evidence, but it definitely took away the fear of death and left the desire to find out in due time. Of course, death wipes our memory, the brain grows anew and we are not likely to have any memories of a previous incarnation.
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07-08-2013, 03:58 AM
RE: Death
(07-08-2013 01:04 AM)Luminon Wrote:  I'd say I had a proof enough that there is multiple backing up. Multiple "bodies" permeating one another as Russian dolls. And above them all, the superconsciousness as the ultimate impersonal guarantee. I know it's not 100 %, I might be imagining and hallucinating all of my life, including the personal evidence, but it definitely took away the fear of death and left the desire to find out in due time. Of course, death wipes our memory, the brain grows anew and we are not likely to have any memories of a previous incarnation.

How far short of 100% would you say ? You've made some assertions here... Brain grows anew etc - this is pretty far out stuff. How do you come by this knowledge ?
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07-08-2013, 06:05 AM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2013 06:19 AM by Luminon.)
RE: Death
(07-08-2013 03:58 AM)morondog Wrote:  How far short of 100% would you say ?
I would say 97 % for me, 1 % for you.
I came by this knowledge by a lifetime of experience, self-observation, experiments and several years of meditation. I was born with some strange sensations, but some developed over the course of my lifetime, some when I started meditating. And the most significant developments of all came within this year. I am certain it is the Physio-Kundalini syndrome.

However, for a skeptical observer most impressive thing about this is awakening of energetic centers and meridians that one did not know about before, but which can be found on old charts of such centers and meridians. It goes without saying that I did not wish or focus to create the sensations, that would make the proof void. Rather, I prefer to void my mind and let the phenomena manifest by themselves.

(07-08-2013 03:58 AM)morondog Wrote:  You've made some assertions here... Brain grows anew etc - this is pretty far out stuff. How do you come by this knowledge ?
That is a misunderstanding. Brain grows anew for every person in pre-natal stadium, obviously. This is a technical reason why we normally can not have memories of previous incarnations, even if they were real. However, my experience is, that we all have something, that is claimed to be the equipment for the consciousness to survive our death. There is more besides the biology.

I am consciously aware of this equipment, which is also known to practitioners of laya yoga or kundalini yoga. Scientists like Itzak Bentov or Lee Sanela claim, that the PK syndrome may affect the brain, nerve and endocrine system physically. I can get you the book, if you're interested in the neurological aspect, though most is about the mechanics of consciousness. I have also another book, by J. M. Cohen, on how this mystical experience shaped the history of world religions, art and even the present. I find both books teaching the same lesson, do not take the consciousness and reality for granted. They can both be broadened.

If you're not interested in the book, here's some reading at least.
http://alwaysburning.wordpress.com/tag/itzhak-bentov/
http://biologyofkundalini.com/
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07-08-2013, 09:18 PM
RE: Death
Uh, guys. We have a reality-based way to try to turn death from a permanent off-state into a temporary and reversible off-state by pushing hard with current techniques. Look up the Brain Preservation Foundation:

http://www.brainpreservation.org/

Michael Shermer, the atheist, critic of pseudoscience and editor of Skeptic magazine, serves as one of this foundation's advisers, so apparently he considers its goals scientifically defensible:

http://www.brainpreservation.org/content/advisors

But for some reason atheists have resisted this idea, despite Shermer's involvement with it. I've even tried to interest Seth in it, to no avail.
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07-08-2013, 10:14 PM
RE: Death
Death is a tragedy when it comes at the inopportune times yet it is still here to stay, and probably always will be a fundamental component to life. Those hurt the most by death are the living, not the dead, the dead don't care, and some day neither will you. It's a sucky thought, but only for as long as you are alive.

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07-08-2013, 10:52 PM
RE: Death
The only reasons I fear death is that if I died right now would be that I would miss out on so much more that life has to offer, there is so much I have not yet done. Then there is the effect it would have on my family, and wanting to make sure they and my pets would be okay and cared for. And that I would die before coming out as an atheist and be given a Jehovah's Witness funeral.

But if I were to think ahead and imagine dying when I was old and my health starting to fail, and perhaps after seeing many of my family and friends pass away... I think I would accept it far more willingly. As it is right now I don't stress about death. I don't know when it will come and I can't control it so why waste the life I have now worrying about it?
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07-08-2013, 10:53 PM
RE: Death
(07-08-2013 09:18 PM)advancedatheist Wrote:  But for some reason atheists have resisted this idea, despite Shermer's involvement with it. I've even tried to interest Seth in it, to no avail.

Jeez, we *are* a bunch of twits if we don't cotton to something when even the mighty Shermer is involved... Tongue
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08-08-2013, 11:07 AM
RE: Death
(06-08-2013 04:51 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  So over the last few weeks something I've been hit by a slow realisation. I have a huge fear of death. Not in that I think I'm about to die or anything but just the fact that I (and certain people in my life) will one day die. The thought never used to bother me but recently it has begun to scare the shit outta me.

I think there are two main reasons. Firstly, I think about how much I've learned, changed, and developed through my life. All those experience have shaped me into something over the last 21 years and it terrifies me that that could (and one day will) all be erased in a single moment, it will all be lost. It could happen at any point. Secondly, I think about the people I'll leave behind (or who will leave me behind). There are a few people in this world who I think have immeasurable worth. The thought that I could get hit by a bus tomorrow and never communicate with them again, and see how their life progresses, equally scares me. The thought that they might be hit by a bus tomorrow and be lost to me and the world is just as bad.

I know most atheists seem to say that they are cool with the idea of simply dying and that they wouldn't want to exist forever. I am not in that bracket at all.

How do other people view these things?

That is how it should be. You should be scared of death, you are young and you need to have a survival instinct going for you. If humans were not scared of death we would all commit suicide over ridiculous things and the human race would be doomed.

As you age, that fear will get smaller and smaller. When you are older, it is much more scary when others die than the thought of dying oneself could ever be.

Death is horrible because it leaves people who are alive and grieving. Other than that, it's no different than falling asleep.

When you are young, you are scared and do all you can to avoid the situation.

When you are old, you get to be all rational about it and many try to control the situation then.

All is as should be.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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08-08-2013, 12:24 PM
RE: Death
It always amuses... I mean, saddens... me to see people comforting themselves about dying by spouting inane comfort blanket bullshit like "Well I don't care if I die tomorrow because I've enjoyed being alive" or "I don't worry about death because when I'm dead I won't be there to worry about it" or "I don't worry about being dead because I'll have lived a full life" etc etc.

The reality is that death isn't peaceful, calm or meaningful; there is no 'completion' of narrative just because you've died - in reality, its good to be alive, you can only enjoy life while being alive, and you will most likely die in some random, pointless and painful fashion and when you're dead it will mean nothing else apart from the fact that you were experiencing reality one moment, but now there is no you to experience anything.

What do I think about death? I think its fucking terrifying.

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"Humans always measure what they see in front of them to what they already know. They will deny anything outside of that. They are shallow lifeforms, so enthralled with superficial appearances that they fail to see the truth."
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08-08-2013, 01:12 PM
RE: Death
It goes back and forth for me. Some days I think about it and get scared (not seeing my son grow up) and other days I think about everything that happened before I was born and how the universe and those in it, never even noticed my absence. I don't like the idea of not existing, but I also don't like the idea of existing forever.

I think the only bit about death that really scares me, is that there are random events and illnesses that can end it prematurely.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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