Death
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08-08-2013, 01:30 PM
RE: Death
(08-08-2013 11:07 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(06-08-2013 04:51 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  So over the last few weeks something I've been hit by a slow realisation. I have a huge fear of death. Not in that I think I'm about to die or anything but just the fact that I (and certain people in my life) will one day die. The thought never used to bother me but recently it has begun to scare the shit outta me.

I think there are two main reasons. Firstly, I think about how much I've learned, changed, and developed through my life. All those experience have shaped me into something over the last 21 years and it terrifies me that that could (and one day will) all be erased in a single moment, it will all be lost. It could happen at any point. Secondly, I think about the people I'll leave behind (or who will leave me behind). There are a few people in this world who I think have immeasurable worth. The thought that I could get hit by a bus tomorrow and never communicate with them again, and see how their life progresses, equally scares me. The thought that they might be hit by a bus tomorrow and be lost to me and the world is just as bad.

I know most atheists seem to say that they are cool with the idea of simply dying and that they wouldn't want to exist forever. I am not in that bracket at all.

How do other people view these things?

That is how it should be. You should be scared of death, you are young and you need to have a survival instinct going for you. If humans were not scared of death we would all commit suicide over ridiculous things and the human race would be doomed.

As you age, that fear will get smaller and smaller. When you are older, it is much more scary when others die than the thought of dying oneself could ever be.

Death is horrible because it leaves people who are alive and grieving. Other than that, it's no different than falling asleep.

When you are young, you are scared and do all you can to avoid the situation.

When you are old, you get to be all rational about it and many try to control the situation then.

All is as should be.

Is some ways you're right but I disagree with some of it. People in their early 20's don't have as much fear of death as those in mid-life. People in their 20's feel immortal. They go off to war easily because they have no real concept of death. It's very abstract notion to them. Late in your twenties and maybe early thirties death starts to become something real but even then it's sort of abstract. I think mid-life is when death becomes a reality. Maybe there has been a death of a friend or parent and death becomes more of threat to life.

As time goes on I think one has to finally be a peace with the state of death otherwise you don't enjoy much of life.

I myself don't fear death as much as I used to. I won't mind being dead it's the dying process that I'm not looking forward to. I want it to be very quick.

Death to me is what it was before you were born. Nothingness. Before I was born there was no pain, no thought, no nothing. To me there is nothing wrong with nothingness.

Shakespeare Insult 13 – Henry IV Part 1
“That trunk of humours, that bolting-hutch of beastliness, that swollen parcel of dropsies, that huge bombard of sack, that stuffed cloak-bag of guts, that reverend vice, that grey Iniquity, that father ruffian, that vanity in years?”
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08-08-2013, 01:55 PM
RE: Death
(06-08-2013 04:51 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  So over the last few weeks something I've been hit by a slow realisation. I have a huge fear of death. Not in that I think I'm about to die or anything but just the fact that I (and certain people in my life) will one day die. The thought never used to bother me but recently it has begun to scare the shit outta me.

I think there are two main reasons. Firstly, I think about how much I've learned, changed, and developed through my life. All those experience have shaped me into something over the last 21 years and it terrifies me that that could (and one day will) all be erased in a single moment, it will all be lost. It could happen at any point. Secondly, I think about the people I'll leave behind (or who will leave me behind). There are a few people in this world who I think have immeasurable worth. The thought that I could get hit by a bus tomorrow and never communicate with them again, and see how their life progresses, equally scares me. The thought that they might be hit by a bus tomorrow and be lost to me and the world is just as bad.

I know most atheists seem to say that they are cool with the idea of simply dying and that they wouldn't want to exist forever. I am not in that bracket at all.

How do other people view these things?

I am an atheist and death scares the shit out of me! It's an obsession, lately. So, you, as a human being (and an atheist) are not alone in your fear of death. I fear it! I don't want to face it! I want to go to heaven and live forever! But heaven isn't there. So, we gotta get on with some living!

By the way: It's good to hear another atheist admit to this! When other atheist's kind of shrug their shoulders to the fear of death, I kind wonder if they are being truthful. I love living and can't imagine being "ready" to stop.
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08-08-2013, 04:58 PM
RE: Death
Death is the end of consciousness and, because I exist only as a consciousness, that terrifies me. I suffer from anxiety, but everything I have issues with can not be accurately described as a fear. They are things that are hard to deal with, but I can deal with them. I can't deal with death; it is the one thing that I am truly afraid of.

I am as atheist as one can be, but I still wish there was an afterlife.

If something can be destroyed by the truth, it might be worth destroying.

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08-08-2013, 05:06 PM (This post was last modified: 09-08-2013 05:12 AM by Luminon.)
RE: Death
Death? That's about the last thing I'd want to do. Dodgy

Yes, this is a joke.

Morondog: So what, any opinions, comments, book demands? Any excitement? Aren't you interested at all? You're wary of getting your hope too high? Or do you keep away from anything that looks like woo? Just asking...
If everyone could learn as much as I learn...
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08-08-2013, 05:16 PM
RE: Death
(08-08-2013 04:58 PM)Elesjei Wrote:  Death is the end of consciousness and, because I exist only as a consciousness, that terrifies me. I suffer from anxiety, but everything I have issues with can not be accurately described as a fear. They are things that are hard to deal with, but I can deal with them. I can't deal with death; it is the one thing that I am truly afraid of.

I am as atheist as one can be, but I still wish there was an afterlife.

I think if I didn't have children death would scare me. Somehow having children carries on your genes and your teachings and philosophies. Even if you adopt a child your life becomes so entwined with theirs that after you die you've changed their life so profoundly those ideas never die and you live on. I think death is one of the things that people who decide to not have children will have a more difficult time dealing with. When a childless person dies they really die. That's just my thinking.

Shakespeare Insult 13 – Henry IV Part 1
“That trunk of humours, that bolting-hutch of beastliness, that swollen parcel of dropsies, that huge bombard of sack, that stuffed cloak-bag of guts, that reverend vice, that grey Iniquity, that father ruffian, that vanity in years?”
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08-08-2013, 05:37 PM
RE: Death
I think death was the last thing that really is the nail in the coffin for my being an atheist. I can't go back either way so what I deal with now is accepting it as best I can and it's not easy. There is a part of me that would like for me to chose the time and the place of my death, but then that's not how life works.

My geese, I should become a poet.

The biggest thing I think that gets me to go "WTF??" at with death is that all material objects are just that: material objects. I myself am matter brought forth from the stars. Stars lives end and the Universe will end... or it won't. But luckily it so far has not claimed my sense of self-worth and the worth of others around me and life in general. I don't go about thinking "You live and you die, that's it". It's more of a "You live your life and do right by yourself and others and what happens happens in its time" that brings me peace and helps me accept death as just another part of life. It's just a mortal coil and I am unable to manipulate the spring. I'm okay with that... most days. Blush

Damn, I really really should become a poet.

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08-08-2013, 05:45 PM (This post was last modified: 08-08-2013 06:24 PM by Dom.)
RE: Death
(08-08-2013 05:16 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(08-08-2013 04:58 PM)Elesjei Wrote:  Death is the end of consciousness and, because I exist only as a consciousness, that terrifies me. I suffer from anxiety, but everything I have issues with can not be accurately described as a fear. They are things that are hard to deal with, but I can deal with them. I can't deal with death; it is the one thing that I am truly afraid of.

I am as atheist as one can be, but I still wish there was an afterlife.

I think if I didn't have children death would scare me. Somehow having children carries on your genes and your teachings and philosophies. Even if you adopt a child your life becomes so entwined with theirs that after you die you've changed their life so profoundly those ideas never die and you live on. I think death is one of the things that people who decide to not have children will have a more difficult time dealing with. When a childless person dies they really die. That's just my thinking.

I never felt the urge to pass on my genes. But there are lots of people whose life crossed with mine who I think picked something up that gets passed along to someone else.

I have no children, and I have no issue at all with death. The effect on me is the opposite of what you say - I don't have to worry about dying and leaving children behind. If I had kids, especially ones that are not grown, I'd be scared to death of dying. ( Tongue ) I can make a clean exit, I don't have to worry about those I leave behind. It's liberating. It allows me to face death with an easy mind.

But, you know, we all have different thoughts and feelings about this. There is no right or wrong here.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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08-08-2013, 06:39 PM
RE: Death
Thanks for the replies people, they've given me some stuff to think about.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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09-08-2013, 01:01 AM
RE: Death
(08-08-2013 05:06 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Morondog: So what, any opinions, comments, book demands? Any excitement? Aren't you interested at all? You're wary of getting your hope too high? Or do you keep away from anything that looks like woo? Just asking...
If everyone could learn as much as I learn...

I'll be honest, it smells too much of woo to interest me much.

In terms of getting my hopes up... you're *convinced* in your own mind that this stuff works right ? I'm not sure what it would take to change your mind but it would be a lot. You'd probably feel that it's useless to try since you know that it works.

If you can picture that level of certainty in the opposite direction, that's why I'm fairly meh about reading up on this stuff. There's little enough time on this Earth and I know what interests me.

About the only interest I can muster is anthropological - why do people believe this stuff ? I will have a bit of a read of the links you supplied but it looks like something which will take more than 5 minutes skimming... and again, I have no real motivation... It seems more like nicely packaged wishful thinking than anything else to me.

The reason I asked you the question was that you said you had *proof* and that you were nearly certain that it worked... it was more that I wanted to see how your thought process worked. So ja, apologies for treating you like a bug under a microscope Tongue
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09-08-2013, 10:33 AM
RE: Death
(09-08-2013 01:01 AM)morondog Wrote:  I'll be honest, it smells too much of woo to interest me much.

In terms of getting my hopes up... you're *convinced* in your own mind that this stuff works right ? I'm not sure what it would take to change your mind but it would be a lot. You'd probably feel that it's useless to try since you know that it works.

If you can picture that level of certainty in the opposite direction, that's why I'm fairly meh about reading up on this stuff. There's little enough time on this Earth and I know what interests me.

The reason I asked you the question was that you said you had *proof* and that you were nearly certain that it worked... it was more that I wanted to see how your thought process worked. So ja, apologies for treating you like a bug under a microscope Tongue
I'm not offended because you treat me like a bug under a microscope. I am offended, because you don't look close enough! There is no thought process involved, really. I have empirical, sensory observations and I am free to think about them whatever I want. For many years I thought nothing. Then I both made better observations and got to better information and now I can draw some conclusions. I do not see the evidence pointing at any other conclusion.
From the observations and information I have, I am am compelled to be nearly certain, save for some unforeseen circumstances. I don't see any ambiguity in it.

(09-08-2013 01:01 AM)morondog Wrote:  About the only interest I can muster is anthropological - why do people believe this stuff ? I will have a bit of a read of the links you supplied but it looks like something which will take more than 5 minutes skimming... and again, I have no real motivation... It seems more like nicely packaged wishful thinking than anything else to me.
Then I am a wrong person to ask, because I don't believe. I empirically perceive, I have no other choice.
I am equally puzzled why do people believe. If they have no perception, they have no basis to think anything! They should be naturalists and materialists. And people who perceive strange stuff should take it seriously, instead of mistrusting their senses, which are trying to tell them something.

Belief is bullshit, either I sense something, or I don't. I can draw a hypothesis on what it might be, but I can't believe.
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