Death
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10-08-2013, 12:58 PM
RE: Death
(09-08-2013 10:34 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(09-08-2013 11:24 AM)Dom Wrote:  I think I might have a neurological anomaly that makes some of these sensations more accessible, but people all across the history kept having the same kinds of sensations later in life, even totally spontaneously.
But... weird sensation implies whole alternate reality only detectable through weird sensations seems like a bit of a leap ?

Pffft, I didn't say that, Luminon did.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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10-08-2013, 01:17 PM
RE: Death
My apologies, I cocked up the quoting, I knew it was him. I fixed it in my post Smile
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10-08-2013, 01:19 PM
RE: Death
(10-08-2013 12:03 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(10-08-2013 11:52 AM)Ameron1963 Wrote:  But there will come a day, when I can't pluck a fresh tomato from my garden and enjoy that brief taste of life! I fear that! I don't know why, but I do.

The trick is to savor it while you can.

You are right, of course! But I haven't had sex in three years! Just saying! Sometimes it seems, there's not so much to savor!

But I still have exclamation points! There's and endless supply of those!

I do thank god for beer!
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10-08-2013, 01:22 PM
RE: Death
(09-08-2013 09:32 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Raising children isn't for the faint of heart that's for sure. I totally loved it! And I would have hated my life without children. I have a very strong mothering instinct. But death doesn't bother me too much. I mean I don't want to die until I know my kids are really on their own and responsible for themselves.
Personally, I just find it annoying that people tell me I should have had children, and I would have enjoyed it. As i see it, in addition to having to want kids, being able to enjoy having kids also involves being a social person (if you're going to live with those children and a spouse/SO for a long time). So, if it involved sharing my house and time with other humans, I would be miserable if I had children, due to personality disorders making me dislike being around people.

I mean that it seems to me that many people think everyone should have children, including the people who don't want them, as if they'll magically develop a parental instinct. I think that's a dangerous idea, telling people who don't want children to have children, because it's dangerous to the unwanted children (and the adults who may be miserable). I digress as usual.

(09-08-2013 03:48 PM)Ameron1963 Wrote:  Well, I realize that our lives have no "real" value. I just wonder if, statistically, people who have children feel more valuable to society than those of us who don't. And if they are happier?

I am 50 years old, so it's basically too late for me to have children (and raise them). So, the question is academic.

Happiness isn't quantifiable, so I have no idea. I suppose all people are happy sometimes and not happy other times. You also seem to be basing the feeling of happiness on "feeling valuable to society," and I don't think that's necessarily so for everyone, or at least, it depends on how you define "society."

I think it would be difficult to find out the answer to your question, because it seems that a large majority of humans end up having children. And it would be impossible to filter out every other variable in people's lives that may influence their happiness.
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10-08-2013, 02:07 PM
RE: Death
(09-08-2013 03:48 PM)Ameron1963 Wrote:  I am 50 years old, so it's basically too late for me to have children (and raise them). So, the question is academic.

Bah, nonsense. Tony Randall popped out 2 with a 26 yo hottie at the ripe old age of 77 before checking out at 84. ... Fucking stud.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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10-08-2013, 02:25 PM
RE: Death
(09-08-2013 10:34 PM)morondog Wrote:  Pins and needles = life after death ? Are you sure there's no other explanation than this? I don't care that Chinese medicine has postulated this for 1000 years, lets assume you're the first Chinese scientist back in the day, how do you confirm that this is a meridian line ? I don't deny that you might find this tingling sensation, but how do you know that it corresponds to this meridian line causing it ?
I did not say pins and needles. I don't know how exactly describe this sensation, maybe like something electric. Except that on higher intensities it adds pressure and sometimes even heat or burning. And pain. Don't forget the good old plain pain.

How do I know that? I go about my business and then I feel this weird sensation for a couple of days in the same place, and I think, "man, that's weird. I must look that up online." I look up the meridian charts and lo, behold, there it is, a meridian exactly in the same place. I can even feel the acupuncture points. They hurt more.

(09-08-2013 10:34 PM)morondog Wrote:  It seems more to me like a self-confirming observation. You get pins and needles in some area, you look it up on the chart. Whoa! There's a meridian line there! It must be the meridian line giving me pins and needles...
If you can think of that possibility, I can think of that too. But I'm not a TC Medicine nerd, I don't study or memorize the meridians. Not until I have to, to have any idea what the hell is going on. The sensation comes first. Sometimes it's a pain. Lots of pain, in a very precise line and it does not stop, even if I want to. If I have a headache, it's a meridian ache. For all my life I thought the meridians were just a bunch of weird random lines. Then I started feeling them. It wasn't my idea. I always felt chakras, but never meridians. Now I feel like a goddamn electric appliance, full of wires. And some are apparently burning, shorted out or something. Fuck me if I know what to think about that, but my popular science nerd self is full of curiosity. I just hope I won't grow angel wings or something. Drinking Beverage

(09-08-2013 10:34 PM)morondog Wrote:  Other example observations ? Um... by the way, this is standard shredding hey, not trying to call you stoopid or anything, but this is the kind of thing that every critically evaluated idea should be subjected to. Only the ones that remain standing are then worthy of further consideration.
Sure, we could exclude every possibility. But I get the positive evidence in favor of the meridian and chakra hypothesis so often, that I'm not surprised anymore.
Right now my left hand hurts like it's burning. It burns exactly in the line of... let me see, pericardium meridian, never heard of it before.
http://russjamieson.com/wp-content/uploa...hart-1.jpg
That's not even the big stuff. Imagine, it's the two or three major spinal channels active, together with the head centers and a couple of lower major chakras. That is something. That feels like being made more of plasma than of flesh. At times like this I am not surprised this stuff inspires religions of immortality. For now I can say, that the biologic theory of death is in dispute. Yes, flesh may die, but what I observe is not flesh. It's some freaky electro-plasmatic stuff. Damn if I know what would death do with it. Damn I know if this is just an interface to something bigger and even weirder and possibly immortal. But I can look all that up in esoteric books, based on centuries of people who went through the same processes apparently.

Quote: I can drive a car because my senses in general are good enough that it's not dangerous. If I'm drunk, my senses function but driving a car is a bad idea. Now when I'm drunk I know I may perceive reality different that when I'm sober. Since as you say perception is caused by something, which reality shall I choose to believe ? This is why I need something outside my own senses to cross-check. Human brain is an amazing object, evolved over millenia, you're asking me to believe that it is a precisely calibrated measuring tool too ? How about mentally ill people, they perceive a different reality. I would say that their brains *interpret* this reality differently. If I can trust my brain, can I be sure that I am not mentally ill ?
Are you able to control for your drunkenness? Good, do it. Do it with all factors you know. Learn to observe yourself. Learn to watch your desires and fears and control for them too. A trained brain is a precise measuring tool. Obviously, you need a healthy brain, or an unhealthy brain in a way which you are able to control for, a consistently, predictably unhealthy brain. If your brain is generating random, inconsistent thoughts, then check if they are consistently inconsistent, so you can filter them out too.

Then just go about your business and note anything that happens, don't wish for anything, don't pursue it. This is how you can get personal empirical observations, for which you don't need to be ashamed in front of your skeptical self. Damn, looks like I have inadvertently followed the Buddhist tradition of mindfulness. No wonder that weird stuff is happening.

Quote: But... weird sensation implies whole alternate reality only detectable through weird sensations seems like a bit of a leap ?
Let me see, weird sensations of a unique kind, showing exactly in places predicted by independent records, described by people worldwide and across human history, and on top of that, I am not 100 % certain, so it seems a relatively acceptable leap, until some new or different evidence shows up.

It seems hell a lot more adequate stance than doing nothing and waiting till some science journals decide to publish something on the topic for the first time since the history of western science. I might as well wait forever. Last time I spoke to a doctor, I was like the only one in her career who ever asked about a research. And then I looked up the magnetic resonance imaging that I think might work on it, and turns out there is 1 machine like that in whole Europe, extremely expensive, cooled by helium. Sad
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10-08-2013, 02:30 PM
RE: Death
Wait for the chorus ...




Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-08-2013, 02:58 PM
RE: Death
Luminon, we're humans. We all have hands and feet and enormously complex machinery inside of us. Is it surprising that we'd get aches and pains in similar places ? I'm asking, what else are these meridian lines other than common places to get funny sensations ?

Because you wouldn't have a special name for them unless you were also asserting something else right, that these meridian lines have some deeper meaning ? So spill the beans Wink

Other than that... if it works, mainstream science will catch on, even if it takes a while. Scientists are not *defining* reality, trying to make the entire human race believe one thing when reality is different, they are *exploring* it. We keep the good theories and chuck out the bad. Sometimes theories are fashionable and lots of people work on them, but any theory with any meat to it will be cared about by someone, and will have its day in the sun *when there is decent evidence* for it.

The fact that this chakra stuff has been around for so long and has long since been relegated to fringe science basically means that it's unlikely that it's got anything more to offer. But hey, enthusiasts like yourself may come across something. You'll need some whizzbang stuff to interest people though, some prediction, something you can *do* with your theory which shows that chakra's the correct way to interpret the experimental results... otherwise... no one will be interested...
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10-08-2013, 03:07 PM
RE: Death
(10-08-2013 02:07 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(09-08-2013 03:48 PM)Ameron1963 Wrote:  I am 50 years old, so it's basically too late for me to have children (and raise them). So, the question is academic.

Bah, nonsense. Tony Randall popped out 2 with a 26 yo hottie at the ripe old age of 77 before checking out at 84. ... Fucking stud.

Poor kids have to grow up without a father... Unsure

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10-08-2013, 04:10 PM
RE: Death
(10-08-2013 03:07 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(10-08-2013 02:07 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Bah, nonsense. Tony Randall popped out 2 with a 26 yo hottie at the ripe old age of 77 before checking out at 84. ... Fucking stud.

Poor kids have to grow up without a father... Unsure

Bah, they had 2 more years with their father than Girly had with his and I'll bet rich old daddy made sure they were financially secure before he checked out, unlike my old man who just left us in the lurch when I was 5 yo. ... Father's are overrated. Tongue

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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