Death.
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09-03-2014, 03:32 AM (This post was last modified: 09-03-2014 03:37 AM by Baruch.)
RE: Death.
Agree with Misanthropik

What usually scares people is the process of dying i.e suffering towards the end of life. Death itself is NOT AN EXPERIENCE.

You might fear or have anxiety ANTICIPATING to go to sleep but you have no fear when in deep unconscious sleep.

You might fear or have anxiety from needles and the anticipation of having an anesthetic - but once the anesthetic kicks in there is no conscious experience - hence no fear (or any experience)

Like wise death is the same - there is no experience hence how could there be anything to possibly fear ?

When I mean we fear the process of dying it is not ONLY the suffering from ill health as ghastly as this can be. I work in a hospital and seen the death rattle as saliva accumulates in the dying persons mouth, the lungs fill with fluid and someone struggles for each breath in a terrifying prolonged agony. (we usually kick in with some drugs at this stage to help alleviate this - but its nasty)

The suffering anticipating dying is also from REGRETS - things you wished you had done. So DO THEM NOW ! We all begin dying as soon as we are born ! You are in the process of dying now !!! This moment !
So if someone learns to deal with regret, and live fully now, every day then there will be no regret and suffering related to this. Big Grin


On the other hand I assume heaven is a conscious experience - living for eternity in heaven sounds like fear inducing hell !!! I mean living for 200 years - yup, I go for it if the experiences are good i.e not long periods of ill health.
400 year life - could be great, but I can see problems, however for someone with passion & goals this could be fantastic - or very dull for someone without much ambition and who becomes desensitized to sensual pleasures.
1000 years - this is already difficult to imagine ? How clear are memories from 400 yrs previously ?
If there is no cognitive decline and overall improvement in fitness and cognition and there are ambitious goals to achieve or experiences don't become desensitized (eg desensitization to novelty or repeated experiences) then this could be great ??? I dont know. Its already beyond the capacity to project what such a personality would be like.
WHat about 10,000 years...
Then 100,000 year life ?
Then 1,000,000,000,000,000............................................
In such circumstances one may just want to eat the forbidden fruit and pray God has the Grace to switch of the fucking lights !
Eternity also becomes UTTERLY meaningless because there can be no ambitions or goals to achieve - its just an infinite regress. (if this is even comprehensible or possible)

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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09-03-2014, 03:39 AM
RE: Death.
I also suggest for the more philosophical inclined a great course on the topic of death from Shelly Kagan Professor of Philosophy at Yale.

Available free on itunes university
and
http://oyc.yale.edu/philosophy/phil-176

and youtube
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_qu...agan+death

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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09-03-2014, 10:08 AM
RE: Death.
I have always believed that death is the big nothing. It's exactly like it was before I was born with no conscious sensations of any kind. To me, that is very comforting. I am not depressed and am quite happy. I've had a wonderful life. I have been around the world several times, I have a family that I dearly love, but I still look forward to the final dance with the Grim Reaper. The idea that there might be some kind of conscious eternal existence is horrifying to me. I would be bored out of my mind after a very short time, like 8 or 10 thousand years or so.
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09-03-2014, 03:14 PM
RE: Death.
Hey, OP, good to see that other peeps have helped you on here already. Though don't try to rush getting over something like an obsession over death. I find that when I hurry to no obsess over things that I just trip face into it and keep thinking about it. Just take it steady kid.

I defiantly get where you're coming from with this. Around the time I had stopped believing, my grandma had passed away and a few months later my grandpa passed away as well (different sides of the family). I didn't think about death too much with my grandmother because it was just immediate family and felt like we were more celebrating her than mourning someone. My grandpa though. Oh, all the damn people. I couldn't get away from the noise and couldn't stop thinking about it for a few days and occasionally throughout the rest of my semester. Death that is. It really really tripped me out thinking that I could conscious and vibrant and then within an instant all that goes away. But what am I doing? Do I exist in some black void? Do I just stop? What happens to my consciousness? What happens to me? I'm sort of chilling with "hang in there" cat on a tree limb, guessing that's the case.

I found an answer that was good enough to help me stop worrying about it. 1909. God, I love Penn Jillette. In his book, Everyday's An Atheist Holiday he talks about all sorts of his life experiences but the experience that grabbed me more and I think fits for you here is the chapter "November 9,1909- Everything in the World is Enough."
So Penn is on the Piers Morgan show talking about his then newest book God No! and Piers is just bombarding him with questions and negative comments (because I suppose that's what old, cranky British men do) and at one point in the interview, Piers brought up death. Not only did Piers ask him about fearing death but he started mentioning the death of his parents (whom Penn loved dearly). In response, Penn says 1909, the year his mother was born. The answer confuses Piers. Penn explains himself and because I like how he says it, I'm quoting him.

"I asked if 1909 terrified him. This i the question to ask anyone who is afraid of the atheist view of death. How frightened of are you of 1909?...You most likely weren't alive in 1909 and you most likely won't be alive in 2109. You wont have any effect on anything then. You won't know anything and no one will know about you. Game over or game hasn't started--there isn't much difference." (pg. 53 of 287, I'm using a phone so yeah.)

In the rest of the chapter, Penn talks about how he'd love to travel through time, how he daydreams of his mother meeting his daughter at the same age and playing together, and through photographs, video, and stories we can sort of time travel. I believe what life and probably some of why death is worrysome is because, as Penn points out, there's nothing quite scarier than "a life that is so full of joy and love that every second just bursts by and is gone." (pg 57 of 287). In other words, or so I believe, try to live your life so that you're not scared that you wasted something. Do your best in life to do what you want to and need to so that the finish line isn't so intimidating anymore. God I love Penn Jillette.

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09-03-2014, 03:21 PM
RE: Death.
You would be bored after 8000 - 10,000 years ?

What are your ambitions for the 500 year watershed ?
Buying candles for the birthday cake will take a while. Big Grin


Just imagine after 500 years of conscious afterlife people start conspiring how to end their perpetual consciousness and set up a revolution to induce death as the ultimate meaningful goal and ambition ! The winner gets to die !
The person who finally discovers the death potion becomes a great Martyr (literally ! ) and a great hero to envy making all the heavenly conscious people jealous and desire the potion.
They then want the potions so bad the become violent and end up in Hell. Ultimately all heaven would become hell as people strive to capture some death potion. There would be a black market for death potion - the most expensive item in existence to take you out of existence !

Perhaps this is the Gods great purpose - we live our life to desire heaven. Eventually those who get to heaven eventually desire genuine death as the primary motivating passion after a few thousand years. They eventually get death but are resurrected in another Earthy life as recycled biological material with no memories just to go through the entire cycle again. This is Gods fun.

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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09-03-2014, 03:37 PM
RE: Death.
I'm not all that bright, Baruch. I figure it would take 8-10k years for me to learn everything there is to learn about the universe -- quantum field theory, etc. Once I've learned everything, I will be doing battle to get my hands on the death potion. Laugh out load
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09-03-2014, 03:48 PM
RE: Death.
(09-03-2014 03:21 PM)Baruch Wrote:  You would be bored after 8000 - 10,000 years ?

What are your ambitions for the 500 year watershed ?
Buying candles for the birthday cake will take a while. Big Grin


Just imagine after 500 years of conscious afterlife people start conspiring how to end their perpetual consciousness and set up a revolution to induce death as the ultimate meaningful goal and ambition ! The winner gets to die !
The person who finally discovers the death potion becomes a great Martyr (literally ! ) and a great hero to envy making all the heavenly conscious people jealous and desire the potion.
They then want the potions so bad the become violent and end up in Hell. Ultimately all heaven would become hell as people strive to capture some death potion. There would be a black market for death potion - the most expensive item in existence to take you out of existence !

Perhaps this is the Gods great purpose - we live our life to desire heaven. Eventually those who get to heaven eventually desire genuine death as the primary motivating passion after a few thousand years. They eventually get death but are resurrected in another Earthy life as recycled biological material with no memories just to go through the entire cycle again. This is Gods fun.

And god is immune to the death wish?
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09-03-2014, 03:53 PM
RE: Death.
(07-03-2014 05:37 PM)Floresjose Wrote:  I stopped believing in a god awhile back, an I just can't stop thinking about death. I just can't handle that when I die I just stop existing. I just can't handle that. I lose sleep, I'm becoming terrified of death. It's all I think about. The thought that i won't exist for an eternity jus scares me. I was just posting because maybe someone has a different perspective on the matter. I just don't know what to do. If someone has any positive reinforcement to help clarify this I would really appreciate it.

What's so scary about it?

You had no concept of it before you were born. Just as it'll be the same way when you die. You were atoms an energy at one point, someday you'll be atoms and energy again. In a different form, or perhaps reused by the organisms around you.

Imagine what it was like before you were born and you can imagine the same thing after.

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09-03-2014, 03:56 PM
RE: Death.
I was dead for 13.7 billion years before I was born and it didn't hurt me at all.
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09-03-2014, 04:27 PM
RE: Death.
(09-03-2014 03:53 PM)Logisch Wrote:  
(07-03-2014 05:37 PM)Floresjose Wrote:  I stopped believing in a god awhile back, an I just can't stop thinking about death. I just can't handle that when I die I just stop existing. I just can't handle that. I lose sleep, I'm becoming terrified of death. It's all I think about. The thought that i won't exist for an eternity jus scares me. I was just posting because maybe someone has a different perspective on the matter. I just don't know what to do. If someone has any positive reinforcement to help clarify this I would really appreciate it.

What's so scary about it?

You had no concept of it before you were born. Just as it'll be the same way when you die. You were atoms an energy at one point, someday you'll be atoms and energy again. In a different form, or perhaps reused by the organisms around you.

Imagine what it was like before you were born and you can imagine the same thing after.

I had the same fear and arguing about it is not very effective.
It's something based on instincts.
I also had trouble sleeping but after a while I got used to new concept of death.
It just takes time that's all. I think it's subconscious process.
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