Death.
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11-04-2014, 08:23 AM
RE: Death.
(11-04-2014 08:13 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(11-04-2014 08:06 AM)Dom Wrote:  I couldn't care less what happens to my body after I have left it. Hopefully it gets recycled in some manner. Cremation and spreading the ashes around growing vegetation sounds useful. Not that I will care...

Sounds like a waste. Composting sounds more useful. Not that I give a shit. Big Grin

Ashes contribute lime and potassium and raise the PH of the soil.

The benefit of their use depends on your soil composition, but they can be very useful and targeted. Call them medicine for soil, to be used by prescription only. Smile

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11-04-2014, 09:18 AM
RE: Death.
(11-04-2014 08:23 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(11-04-2014 08:13 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Sounds like a waste. Composting sounds more useful. Not that I give a shit. Big Grin

Ashes contribute lime and potassium and raise the PH of the soil.

The benefit of their use depends on your soil composition, but they can be very useful and targeted. Call them medicine for soil, to be used by prescription only. Smile

Yabut, what are we worth of ash? A quart or less would be my guess. Might be good for a potted plant maybe. Tongue

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11-04-2014, 10:23 AM
RE: Death.
(11-04-2014 09:18 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(11-04-2014 08:23 AM)Dom Wrote:  Ashes contribute lime and potassium and raise the PH of the soil.

The benefit of their use depends on your soil composition, but they can be very useful and targeted. Call them medicine for soil, to be used by prescription only. Smile

Yabut, what are we worth of ash? A quart or less would be my guess. Might be good for a potted plant maybe. Tongue

No, it doesn't take much. Think of it like an extract, much more potent in it's properties than the entire organism. And the changes in the soil are long lived, not short lived like compost.

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11-04-2014, 10:31 AM
RE: Death.
(11-04-2014 10:23 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(11-04-2014 09:18 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Yabut, what are we worth of ash? A quart or less would be my guess. Might be good for a potted plant maybe. Tongue

No, it doesn't take much. Think of it like an extract, much more potent in it's properties than the entire organism. And the changes in the soil are long lived, not short lived like compost.

And it depends on what you want. Compost replenishes the life in the soil , a great number of all kinds of critters populate the soil, when you hold a handful of natural dirt in your hand you are holding a mess of different critters. Compost will feed all these guys who in turn break down nutrients for the plants.

Ash is a soil amendment, it adds something to the composition that is locally not supported enough to allow certain plants to thrive. It is very specific.

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27-04-2014, 03:37 PM
RE: Death.
I have always felt that religion is a in Dylan Morans words "a formalised panic about death." On a base level we are animals and like most animals we have a drive to survive, to continue and also to continue our genetic line. In many cases of bravery and self sacrifice are partly fuelled by the idea of cheating death by saving yourself or saving loved ones. On the other hand it does fuel people to selfish behaviour, such as taking the only lifejacket on a sinking boat etc. So what is it about religion that has fascinated us? It is a self comforting idea that our existence is continued after we die that we are either reborn or we are transported to someplace else either good or bad. The idea of dying is a great discomfort to many and hence religion replaces that unease with a picture much more comforting. Deluded as I believe this view to be I can understand how it may strike fear in somebody the idea that once we are dead it is just nothing. Not only that but that we won't even be able to think of it just being nothing. All that had made me me would no longer exist.

But as to my own personal belief we do continue, we won't be here to experience it and we won't be able to look down from clouds but we will exist both physically and mentally, our bodies will decay and become part of a tree, perhaps in millions of years I might be nothing more than a lump of rock or star dust. Now what I mean by mentally existing is that so long as I have lived and so long as have been part of a community we continue to live on in the memory of others sometimes even after all our loved ones have died we can still be remembered. As Napoleon once said Glory is fleeting but obscurity is forever. When he wrote he embedded himself evermore in history than most people have. Out of billions of people who have passed away we remember the names of just a few who have changed the world. Alexander, Philip of Macedonia, Hannibal of Carthage, Dion Julius Caesar, Nero, Boudicca, Attila, Cleopatra, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle the list continues and is in our eyes very long but in comparison to those that have died and not been remembered much at all then the list of those names would be endless.

Going back to how religion offers a comfort I think it is through religion that the 'safety net' is placed but does it offer any comfort to know that other people you didn't like were able to go to a good afterlife? No, so the idea of segregation is appealing, the people that do bad get bad the people that do good get good. This also gives an incentive to believer that they should be good or at least good by their religions standards in order to get the better of the 2 offers. Scientifically however we have not found evidence that such rewards are real and even if the good people do get the good reward. There are too many variable to consider in terms of what is good and bad dependant on situation and if these should result in being sent to the worse of the two. The christian idea of heaven is of a governing body that judges its followers and separates them based on a book and also based on what his representative says. As everything that he says is the complete truth it is astonishing that in this invisible figurehead we have so many contradicting 'truths'. This I will follow up later but as for now we will stick to the rules governing an afterlife promised.

So we have a ruler and a domain, with rules to follow. But why would we create such an illusion for ourselves? The answer is slightly complex in that religion is in a way a person who has chains around their hands feet and neck while holding a letter inscribed with the words "I AM FREE". In any sense the idea of being free is also an illusion but I will once again reserve this for another time, the best explanation is perhaps that which Sam Harris gives in that since we already know what we want we just don't know it until seconds later then the idea of free will is debunked as the choice has already been made for us by our brains. Now because we are 'free to live our lives as free people' according to scriptures it is baffling that as free people we would be judged and sorted based on our 'free willed' actions. But also that a loving god who knew his 'children' were going to do something worthy of hell that would not intervene is an abhorrent idea.

Tackling the idea of hell, its main purpose is seemingly to strike fear and caution into followers in that saying certain things and even thinking certain things may send you there. Even unborn children would go to hell simply because they had not been baptised. In medieval times it was said that through money an individual could be prayed for around the clock for an expensive fee or 'contribution' to the church and would therefore be in an elevated state in heaven. It brings back the idea that there is a hierarchy and that those with wealth are abel to get a better position. This idea is contrary to some of the teachings of the bible however it had persisted for many centuries. for pips rulers being closer to gods representative meant being closer to god too, and so gifts were made. What seems like an apparently 'free' seems awfully expensive when you consider the amount of donations towards a being that has no need of them or a palace or even a country status. And for what? all to avoid going to the bad place we don't have evidence it even exists. Given eternity enough any place can seem like hell. So why give ourselves eternity? it seems we have come full circle back to that innate fear, the fear of death.

To deal with this fear we have created a barrier but still we feel no safer, we created our heaven but also the threat of hell and of not only ourselves going there but our loved ones. So now through fear we have trapped ourselves into a very tight corner in which those enslaved are fearful of doing the wrong thing based on a religious representatives view point and on those written down over a thousand years prior. That is where if we do have free will to begin with we instantly lose when we subscribe to such beliefs, it becomes a tool to be used against the followers in a despicable way as to make them a mockery. It is a mental torture in that it is making the person proudly announce they are free when in fact they have chains around their necks. It is putting the gun towards someones head and telling them not to be bad. It is totalitarian and it is cruel. Even Buddism offers a cruel afterlife threat in that if we do not do things the right way we might end up in a much worse life than previous. it is because of the culmination of all this that I very much believe that religion is not a force for good but instead a method of control.

So have I given you the reader any comfort in this rather long expansion of thought on what I intended to be a paragraph. Well hopefully, some people will always feel they have lost something from losing their faith be it the feeling of comfort or the idea of seeing loved ones again. And I cannot offer you any of those things, but I can offer this. We have today and hopefully tomorrow to spend with those we cherish, so long as we are remembered we are never truly dead and even when the time comes that we are forgotten someday we and our friends will become stardust once more.[/size]
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28-04-2014, 08:28 AM
RE: Death.
(15-03-2014 03:22 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  To the OP.

Have you ever been put under general anaesthetic so that you were no longer conscious and didn't even dream?

What's the difference between being in this state and being dead?

My thought exactly!!!!!!!
If one happens to be a believer/christian/jew/mohamadan/Buddhist....any religionist at all that believes in a) a "soul" and b) and "afterlife"...I would ask:
"What - exactly and specifically - does the "soul" do or say or think while the body/brain of the "host" is under general anesthetic?
If the answer is honest - the best the person can answer is: "I don't know."
Now the problem: other than duration, there seems to be no difference between the state when the body/brain are under a general anesthetic and true death.

Having been under general anesthetic a few times.....I knew going in that at some point I would wake up (or at least fervently believed I would). At the point of death (assuming I'm conscience of the fact), I will know that I won't.
Scary??

"People don't go to heaven when they die; they're taken to a special room and burned!" Evil_monster
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28-04-2014, 08:32 AM
RE: Death.
(28-03-2014 09:53 PM)Pickup_shonuff Wrote:  I didn't read every reply so I don't know if anyone has said it yet but this quote by Epicurus (341–270 BC) brilliantly captures a rational response to the prospect of one's own morality:

“Why should I fear death?
If I am, then death is not.
If Death is, then I am not.
Why should I fear that which can only exist when I do not?"

"It ain't the final state; it's the transition!!

"People don't go to heaven when they die; they're taken to a special room and burned!" Evil_monster
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28-04-2014, 06:22 PM (This post was last modified: 28-04-2014 10:03 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Death.








Because I could not stop for Death –
He kindly stopped for me –
The Carriage held but just Ourselves –
And Immortality.

We slowly drove – He knew no haste
And I had put away
My labor and my leisure too,
For His Civility –

We passed the School, where Children strove
At Recess – in the Ring –
We passed the Fields of Gazing Grain –
We passed the Setting Sun –

Or rather – He passed us –
The Dews drew quivering and chill –
For only Gossamer, my Gown –
My Tippet – only Tulle –

We paused before a House that seemed
A Swelling of the Ground –
The Roof was scarcely visible –
The Cornice – in the Ground –

Since then – 'tis Centuries – and yet
Feels shorter than the Day
I first surmised the Horses' Heads
Were toward Eternity –

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28-04-2014, 07:21 PM
RE: Death.
(07-03-2014 05:37 PM)Floresjose Wrote:  I stopped believing in a god awhile back, an I just can't stop thinking about death. I just can't handle that when I die I just stop existing. I just can't handle that. I lose sleep, I'm becoming terrified of death. It's all I think about. The thought that i won't exist for an eternity jus scares me. I was just posting because maybe someone has a different perspective on the matter. I just don't know what to do. If someone has any positive reinforcement to help clarify this I would really appreciate it.

If it's your opinion that there's no life after death, take comfort in that you won't be bothered much more when you die. I have no other real advice to offer.
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02-05-2014, 11:36 AM
RE: Death.
I forgot which group of Ancient philosophy or maybe it was a specific ancient philosopher but the theory was along these lines:

For one to worry about Death is the ultimate ignorance. If noone knows what death is then why stress over the matter? We need to deal with death as a part of life. No one knows whether or not death could be the greatest of all thing in life, in a sense of us going onto the next phase, heaven or whatever it might be.
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