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Death Omens
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13-04-2011, 04:11 PM
RE: Death Omens
My mom talks about superstitions all the time, and even plays along on some, but I don't think she really believes them. All that knock on wood, spill the salt, black cat stuff. Cabbage on New Years Day or you'll have bad luck all year. When I pointed out how many bad years we had in the past even after eating the cabbage she just said, "Think how much worse it would have been if we hadn't eaten it."
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13-04-2011, 10:00 PM
RE: Death Omens
Arguably, anything that was 'supernatural' and was then demonstrated to exist or occur is by definition not supernatural, it then becomes a natural phenomenon. Supernatural phenomenon then are not real.

Aside from that, I heard a miracle claim not long ago about how the catholic cracker began to form veins and bleed, then some scientists studied the blood and found it was AB+ and could tell what part of the heart it was from. Lol, complete fail. If you make up or buy into crap, at least make sure it isn't blatantly stupid.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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13-04-2011, 10:45 PM
RE: Death Omens
I can understand why you just sit and nod now that her grandfather just died. What I don't understand is why you accept it under "normal" conditions. Why don't you just point out to her what she's doing?

I want to rip off your superstitions and make passionate sense to you
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14-04-2011, 01:06 AM
RE: Death Omens
@Boota Thats quite funny, in my opinion. The argument she made is unfalsifiable and therefore shouldn't be believed. I could say that her existence is the reason why africans are starving and I could then argue that the africans would be so much happier if she didn't exist, but to say that is just dumb - and a tad nasty.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo

"Every man is guilty of all the good he did not do." - Voltaire
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14-04-2011, 11:08 AM
 
RE: Death Omens
Firstly, where has godlessirish gone too? He posted this in January and he's not replied since?
*Wonders about low flying birds in his area* Tongue

I can only speak to my experiences when it comes to superstitions. Because I can see other people cater to their own, like walking around an open ladder, which isn't a bad thing just for safety concerns, but feeling dread at the sight of a black cat crossing the road (sounds more like bad luck for the cat, if it's a busy road :\), etc... And I can pass those off as things that don't mean anything to me, save I don't walk under ladders for safety reasons, as I don't like an A-frame ladder bearing heavyweight, over my head as I walk and then have to duck to miss the braces. And I slow down so as to let black cats cross the road safely. I also stop and save snapping turtles that may be making a crossing, so they're not smushed. And I slow for squirrels or any critter that's making their own road trip.

All that being said, I think I'd come under fire by some atheists when I say I do have an intuitive side.And I won't go into detail however, it's something I've known all my life.

For some atheists, that's considered BS. Easily dismissed. Not possible, not within the realm of possibility for what I've heard some claim, a "true atheist".

And while all that is possible, and does occur, it doesn't mean anything to me. When I've had the experience and the experience isn't conjecture, isn't imagination, isn't magical thinking, but is there if I'm open to living to see what's around the next corner, instead of blocked by what it means to stay "true" and limited within the confines of what that means, that's what matters. Because this is my life. And I don't live up to a standard, or a label, nor a template for what it means to be my kind of atheist.

So now we come to you. An atheist, who want's nothing to do with that. And mine is not superstition by the way, but that's neither here nor there.

You are talking about your gf and her family who are deeply moved by superstition. While you can't relate and want nothing to do with that.

I think what many couples do is they buy into the notion, especially when they're simply at the dating stage, that love can overcome anything. So they tolerate a lot of things. Because the person they love and why, far outweighs the fidgeting, the holding one's breath, the irksomeness of those little things the one they love are prone to.

I'll tell you as someone who's been married longer than common sense should have allowed, if something about someone you love gets on your last nerve now, because it's a constant part of who they are and is enough to make you cringe till it's over, that the longer you're enmeshed in that relationship those irksome things are going to repeat themselves with regularity.
Especially when it comes to omens. Salt, birds smacking into windows, etc... People can correlate anything that happens in their life to anything that happens in their life prior to, as it's cause. And almost always, omen fans rarely ever see good omens having preceded good news or positive outcomes.
Take an inventory of what kind of omens your lady is fond of, that she focuses on. Good omens or bad omens. If the bad outweighs the good, consider that that's the majority of emotional investment she contributes to what experiences she relates to that what is otherwise happenstance. But for her, is a message or messenger of, in the case of a predilection for bad omens, negativity. Downers.

The thing about relationships, especially when they're new, is we're so happy at first that we're willing to overlook, excuse or ignore those little pinches that really wrack our nerves and make that full on joy moment turn into a bummer for a moment.
And yet, the truth of the matter is two people in a relationship right now were unique experienced individuals before they ever met. Their life experiences, their predilections, their quirks, their personality both the positive and the negative, formed long before that first hello.
And an intimate partnership asks those two individuals with all their personality baggage to come together and meld them into a working relationship.
So that after all the rush of first blush joy, those little things we overlooked before are still there. Of course. And experience, time, has relaxed us so that we're now more comfortable with one another and can let our guards down a bit and be more of our real selves, that self that was alive in us before the first encounter, and be who we truly are.

If those little irksome things about superstition wrack your nerves now, when it's not just one person you have to deal with in the form of your girlfriend, but it's members of her family as well, what's it going to be like on down the road? Especially when you're talking "death omens", considering the one common characteristic among all people is that every one of us eventually dies.

If who you are to your deepest sense of self, can't bear who she is from the periphery on in to her deepest self, you've got a decision to make. If you have to make exceptions for what you can otherwise not appreciate about a predilection or predisposition, or superstition, you're compromising your truth as to what you respect about yourself, who would never do those things because they simply don't make sense. Like giving credence to "death omens", just to be with someone who lives respecting superstition and thus that what you don't respect and that get's on your last nerve because you hold nothing but contempt for it.

When I tell you holding contempt for something someone does, will evolve into holding contempt for that one who repeatedly gives it respect or does it, will tear you down as you repeatedly make exceptions so as to continue to be with that person who has this predisposition, and it will eventually blow up in both your faces and separate you at a certain level, that too is from personal experience. However, it's something I'll share and it's up to you if you give it any thought.

They say relationships are compromise. Well yes, in many ways it is a give and take. However, if you find you have to compromise to the point it drives you up a wall, even when that only begins as a slow scratching testing of the wallpaper prior to any real ascent, you're seeing the first signs of what it means to compromise the relationship you must respect, honor, cherish and love first. That what you have with yourself. Who you know yourself to be. What makes to feel happy, upset, content, satisfied, safe, respected. Compromise that for the sake of having companionship, and sooner or later your first love, will grow tired and fight to get you back. The worst case scenario that can occur contrary to that however, is resignation. You simply give up and stay. In which case the strength of that first love, for lack of being paid attention to and fed for your own sake, results in chronic depression. All because at least you're with someone, even though you're lost to your sense of self.

I've seen that happen and it's ugly. It transforms the person/people, physically as well as emotionally. So while this seems like a novelette of a reply, it's necessary in my opinion. Because this little thing that irks your last nerve about your lady (and her family) is the kind of thing that starts that aforementioned scratching at the wallpaper.

And time after time the superstitious rituals set in, the scratching will happen a little more and the nail marks will go a little deeper as biting your tongue needs be done ever so often, because you don't want to hurt anyone's feelings so you bite your own. But eventually, it stands to be hard to miss and hard to swallow.

No, you don't have to look for the perfect person. But it helps to be open to what you want, and let go of what you simply cant stand or don't respect.

Be well.
GK
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18-04-2011, 02:54 AM
 
RE: Death Omens
While I personally do not immediately rule out the idea of stuff like ghosts & whatnot because I am liking to keep an open mind about those things, but I am not going to live my life in fear of it like a Christian who would live his life in fear of hell.
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07-06-2011, 10:38 AM
 
RE: Death Omens
I don't believe in spirits because I see that as the same thing as believing there is some random spirit somwhere in the universe that we should worship and that created us.

I think that this is a funny story;
I was at a work Christmas party and was standing in the buffet line with a coworker and her husband (lets say Ned & Maude). They were making fun of another coworker because she believed that her house was haunted. That there were ghosts watching her and causing things that went on around her. They were saying that she was so naive and imiginative and how they just couldn't believe there were still people like that in this day and age. Now for the best part: Ned is a pastor at a local church and both Ned and Maude devote their life to god by attending church, leading youth groups, and so forth.
Huh
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23-06-2011, 11:00 AM
RE: Death Omens
I try to stay open minded and secular in not making a firm stance against there being some type of supernatural (Non-Omnipresent)natural beings in nature... but I find no evidence and don't believe them or peoples frequent anecdotal accounts.

I get angry when people don't acknowledge they are irrational and likely untrue. It's fine to be as long as you KNOW it's just a little phony thought but enjoy the aspect of it. I take that stance on little superstitions and some little ocd attributes I have and some friends of mine have. Like lining up skittles or M&Ms in rows by assorted color before eating to make the meal better.
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23-06-2011, 12:53 PM
RE: Death Omens
I've had loads of odd experiences in my life that have yet to be explained. But I hold onto the possibility of a natural explanation. No sense being obsessed with it. i already have enough obsessions. However the supernatural does make for good entertainment in the form of movies or books.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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