Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
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16-05-2015, 12:41 PM
RE: Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
(16-05-2015 12:22 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(16-05-2015 12:15 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I have mixed view on the death penalty - part of me screams that murderers or those who rape childrens should be killed but the other part asks what purpose this serve. Retribution. Wouldn't better punishment be lifetime sentence? Death penalty as form of determent from commiting crime. Did it really work? And also one could ask if potential criminal knowing that such penalty could wait for him won't be more ruthless.

I have mixed feelings on this issue, but generally I think judgments should be more about resocialisation than retribution. After all criminals will some day return to society.

I don't believe in punishment. I don't believe in evil. I think that some individuals have something wrong with them and need to be removed from society so they can't hurt anyone else. Whether they live in prison or die isn't of importance except to them themselves. I would happily let them choose.

I also don't believe in society providing a life of leisure and benefits to permanently jailed people. Nowadays, they can be given work via computer (no, they don't need internet access) and earn the money to get a tv or rug or whatever creature comfort into their cells.

Some individuals certainly should be removed from society, on that I agree. Though I don't know if death penalty really should be used. And as for letting them choose it's interesting concept.

As for permanently jailed I think they should live in humane conditions, but speaking generally I think condition in prison should help prisoners return to society. Recidivism isn't good thing.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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16-05-2015, 01:01 PM (This post was last modified: 16-05-2015 11:27 PM by Cosmic Discourse.)
RE: Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
My current position on the death penalty, is firm opposition. I understand that when emotion is involved in a situation and/or its of a personal nature, some may view it as justifiable punishment.

In a perfect scenario (Utopian world) where we're able to discern absolutely if an individual is guilty of egregious crimes, I would be more inclined to accept the death penalty as an option.

My own personal feelings, even in that Utopian example, would still be to decline the option of capital punishment. I feel as though letting someone sit with the thoughts of their actions for the remainder of their natural life, is actually a more condemning punishment (though more costly) than giving them a get out of life free card (so to speak).

Of course this doesn't apply well to our present legal system, since a life sentence doesn't actually mean life (which I feel it should).


*Edit: Noticed I used corporal punishment, where I meant to say capital punishment. Apologies for any confusion that may have caused.
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16-05-2015, 01:16 PM
RE: Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
(16-05-2015 01:01 PM)Cosmic Discourse Wrote:  My current position on the death penalty, is firm opposition. I understand that when emotion is involved in a situation and/or its of a personal nature, how some may view it as justifiable punishment.

In a perfect scenario (Utopian world) where we're able to discern absolutely if an individual is guilty of egregious crimes, I would be more inclined to accept the death penalty as an option.

My own personal feelings, even in that Utopian example, would still be to decline the option of corporal punishment. I feel as though letting someone sit with the thoughts of their actions for the remainder of their natural life, is actually a more condemning punishment (though more costly) than giving them a get out of life free card (so to speak).

Of course this doesn't apply well to our present legal system, since a life sentence doesn't actually mean life (which I feel it should).

Why punish? The person who committed whatever major cruelty towards others just needs to be kept from doing it again. That can take any shape or form, and I am for allowing said person to decide for themselves.

I don't believe in evil, I think some people are born with certain defects, such as a total absence of empathy. I don't see how punishment is doing anyone any good, or is even fair.

The person themselves needs to decide how to remove themselves from society - imprisonment or death. It's the kind thing to do, and it serves the purpose.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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16-05-2015, 01:49 PM (This post was last modified: 16-05-2015 03:17 PM by Cosmic Discourse.)
RE: Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
(16-05-2015 01:16 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(16-05-2015 01:01 PM)Cosmic Discourse Wrote:  My current position on the death penalty, is firm opposition. I understand that when emotion is involved in a situation and/or its of a personal nature, how some may view it as justifiable punishment.

In a perfect scenario (Utopian world) where we're able to discern absolutely if an individual is guilty of egregious crimes, I would be more inclined to accept the death penalty as an option.

My own personal feelings, even in that Utopian example, would still be to decline the option of corporal punishment. I feel as though letting someone sit with the thoughts of their actions for the remainder of their natural life, is actually a more condemning punishment (though more costly) than giving them a get out of life free card (so to speak).

Of course this doesn't apply well to our present legal system, since a life sentence doesn't actually mean life (which I feel it should).

Why punish? The person who committed whatever major cruelty towards others just needs to be kept from doing it again. That can take any shape or form, and I am for allowing said person to decide for themselves.

I don't believe in evil, I think some people are born with certain defects, such as a total absence of empathy. I don't see how punishment is doing anyone any good, or is even fair.

The person themselves needs to decide how to remove themselves from society - imprisonment or death. It's the kind thing to do, and it serves the purpose.
I would agree, that in the case of those with clear diagnosis of mental illness/deficiency, the system I've proposed wouldn't work.

I'm not entirely clear what you mean by not believing in evil, could you elaborate a bit if you wouldn't mind?

My stance is speaking to those who have done wrong, aren't remorseful and are looking for a metaphorical slap on the hand, which I view as essentially a stamp of approval to continue negative behavior.

I don't profess to know exactly the right course of action for each individual circumstance, yet in the same breath, I'm not in favor of our current system.
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16-05-2015, 03:10 PM
RE: Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
I think the death penalty should be used sparingly - and only in cases where there is virtually no doubt of guilt.

We should never risk executing the innocent.

But guilty fuckers like Tsarnaev??

Fuck him -- I don't care if it hurts or not.

"My brother MADE me do it"...

Yeah, fuck you.... Die, shithead.......

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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16-05-2015, 03:19 PM
RE: Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
The death penalty is only given in case of severe cruelty towards one or more human beings while killing them.

Most people are not capable of behaving in such a way unless culturally conditioned to do so - as in some Muslims. Their society never quite evolved from the middle ages.

Our classifications of "mentally ill" are ill defined and leave much to be desired and I do not consider it just to use them. They need way too much research yet to be any useful in such important decisions.

People who kill others cruelly for kicks are not born with the same set of attributes you (I assume) and I were born. They lack empathy and they lack behavioral inhibitors. That is not their fault, they were born that way.

Hence I don't believe in punishment for such people, but I do think they need to be unable to continue to walk among other people. Unless you want to start with lobotomies, they either need to be locked away or die until we find out how to deal with this in a more humane way.

Since it's not punishment, and since many people do not consider death to be the worst thing that can happen to them, they should be allowed to chose.

Personally my choice would doubtlessly be death. Others may feel otherwise, but I am definitely not alone in this. My bet would be that many people past child rearing age would prefer death.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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16-05-2015, 03:21 PM
RE: Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
(16-05-2015 12:18 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It costs something like 3 times the amount to execute 1 prisoner than to keep them in maximum security for 80 years. Here is a link to a full discussion on this topic.

It's just not cost effective in the US. Now in North Korea where Kim Foo Yung can just line your ass up in front an antiaircraft gun and vaporize your ass for falling asleep in front of him, yeah that's cost effective.

#sigh
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16-05-2015, 03:26 PM
RE: Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
(16-05-2015 03:21 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(16-05-2015 12:18 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It costs something like 3 times the amount to execute 1 prisoner than to keep them in maximum security for 80 years. Here is a link to a full discussion on this topic.

It's just not cost effective in the US. Now in North Korea where Kim Foo Yung can just line your ass up in front an antiaircraft gun and vaporize your ass for falling asleep in front of him, yeah that's cost effective.

Because becoming *MORE* like North Korea should be the goal of every western democracy Dodgy

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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16-05-2015, 03:27 PM
RE: Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
(16-05-2015 12:22 PM)Dom Wrote:  I don't believe in punishment. I don't believe in evil. I think that some individuals have something wrong with them and need to be removed from society so they can't hurt anyone else. Whether they live in prison or die isn't of importance except to them themselves. I would happily let them choose.

The Erewhon argument. That's actually what they did to the crazy Norwegian Christian fuck. The most Norway could sentence him to for killing some 80 people and wounding hundreds of others is 21 years of "Preventative Detention". They can apparently resentence for 5 years at a time after that if they can demonstrate he is still a menace to society. Norwegians be crazy.

#sigh
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16-05-2015, 03:34 PM
RE: Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
(16-05-2015 03:27 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(16-05-2015 12:22 PM)Dom Wrote:  I don't believe in punishment. I don't believe in evil. I think that some individuals have something wrong with them and need to be removed from society so they can't hurt anyone else. Whether they live in prison or die isn't of importance except to them themselves. I would happily let them choose.

The Erewhon argument. That's actually what they did to the crazy Norwegian Christian fuck. The most Norway could sentence him to for killing some 80 people and wounding hundreds of others is 21 years of "Preventative Detention". They can apparently resentence for 5 years at a time after that if they can demonstrate he is still a menace to society. Norwegians be crazy.

Traits you were born with are hardwired and don't correct themselves. Release back into society of such an individual is irresponsible. And stupid.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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