Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
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17-05-2015, 11:36 AM
RE: Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
(16-05-2015 01:16 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(16-05-2015 01:01 PM)Cosmic Discourse Wrote:  My current position on the death penalty, is firm opposition. I understand that when emotion is involved in a situation and/or its of a personal nature, how some may view it as justifiable punishment.

In a perfect scenario (Utopian world) where we're able to discern absolutely if an individual is guilty of egregious crimes, I would be more inclined to accept the death penalty as an option.

My own personal feelings, even in that Utopian example, would still be to decline the option of corporal punishment. I feel as though letting someone sit with the thoughts of their actions for the remainder of their natural life, is actually a more condemning punishment (though more costly) than giving them a get out of life free card (so to speak).

Of course this doesn't apply well to our present legal system, since a life sentence doesn't actually mean life (which I feel it should).

Why punish? The person who committed whatever major cruelty towards others just needs to be kept from doing it again. That can take any shape or form, and I am for allowing said person to decide for themselves.

I don't believe in evil, I think some people are born with certain defects, such as a total absence of empathy. I don't see how punishment is doing anyone any good, or is even fair.

The person themselves needs to decide how to remove themselves from society - imprisonment or death. It's the kind thing to do, and it serves the purpose.

In other words let the criminal pick their punishment?

Personally there aren't any simple answers. Prisons are full of people who claim to be completely innocent


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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17-05-2015, 05:33 PM
RE: Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
(17-05-2015 11:36 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(16-05-2015 01:16 PM)Dom Wrote:  Why punish? The person who committed whatever major cruelty towards others just needs to be kept from doing it again. That can take any shape or form, and I am for allowing said person to decide for themselves.

I don't believe in evil, I think some people are born with certain defects, such as a total absence of empathy. I don't see how punishment is doing anyone any good, or is even fair.

The person themselves needs to decide how to remove themselves from society - imprisonment or death. It's the kind thing to do, and it serves the purpose.

In other words let the criminal pick their punishment?

Personally there aren't any simple answers. Prisons are full of people who claim to be completely innocent

I was still talking about the death penalty, and I explained that I did not see "punishment" as a solution to anything there. People born without empathy and inhibitors are unlikely to be rehabilitated, nor do I consider a person that was born a certain way "evil". So, yes, I think we should save ourselves a lot of money and time and just let them pick - life without parole or death.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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18-05-2015, 06:42 PM
RE: Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
The Death Penalty is just one more penalty, in a long list of other penalties, that some people are perfectly fine with being used to slap a criminal with, so long as the application of the punishment is considered very carefully, and with fairness across the whole population!

Just because there are people in prison now for trying to procure for themselves enough marijuana to last as long as a carton of cigarettes would for a tobacco smoker, doesn't mean you completely do away with the penalty of imprisonment to keep that from happening! The current system we've tied to it, by which we determine a criminal's eligibility for Death, as a penalty to be applied, obviously needs to be rewritten, revised, or otherwise erased & replaced with something brand new & completely different! The way in which it is applied could most definitely take some streamlining in the way of cost effectiveness, too!

But outright refusing to execute anyone, ever, no matter what, is to place the criminal's life on a pedestal above any & all future potential victims simply to hold up some principle based somewhere just outside current reality! I don't care if the only "extra" victim the mega-serial-killer got to murder was a guard who had been trained as rigorously as a Navy Seal, but (at The End of his 15 years of guarding the prick) made just one mistake, just barely big enough to allow for a secreted "home made" shiv to be raked across his neck! If the criminal sworn never to stop trying to kill as often as chance &/or human error allows were to be provided with a painless execution, no one would ever have to worry about making a lethal mistake too close to him/her afterwards!!!

Also (and again) you could prohibit the penalty of death being something a judge has as an option for sentencing at trial for anyone who doesn't ask for it! Only criminals already behind bars would be eligible! And even then I'll let cooler heads come up with a number of (hopefully failed) murder attempts we'll allow before putting the person out of everyone else's misery!

I'd imagine such a penalty would only be levied against someone on an outrageously, allmightily, rare basis, but when it was you can be sure it would have nothing to do with obtaining vengeance for anybody, even less to do with buckling to the pressure of a society that collectively hates the killer's guts, and have everything to do with keeping people safe!

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18-05-2015, 07:44 PM (This post was last modified: 18-05-2015 08:01 PM by Commonsensei.)
RE: Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
He's another example.

Anders Behring Breivik. You may remember him from a few years back. Mass Murderer killed 77 teenagers and injured many more in Norway. An anti-muslim, Christian "Knight Templar", extreme right winger.

Norway doesn't have a death penalty. And the harshest penalty they have is a 21 year sentence. Now most likely he will be up for a review and they could add more years if he's deem a threat to society. But he asked for a death. He said "If i wasn't ready for death I wouldn't had done it." He also made a statement that he would kill everyone in the court room if he had a chance. That was in 2011

Now jump to 2014 his lawyer made an announcement that Breivik regretted his actions. Now I smell BS but if it is true.

What is Norway doing right that we aren't?

And if he is truly sorry. Is it justifiable that he gets to walk around in the world, while these teens where robbed of it?

A Nordic Prison




Killer wants Death Penalty: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/norway-mass-...acquittal/
Murder Renounces His actions http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-23/br...ry/5616400

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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18-05-2015, 07:59 PM
RE: Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
(18-05-2015 07:44 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  He's another example.

Anders Behring Breivik. You may remember him from a few years back. Mass Murderer killed 77 teenagers and injured many more in Norway. An anti-muslim, Christian "Knight Templar", extreme right winger.

Safely removed from the civilian population no longer a threat to anyone else or himself.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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18-05-2015, 08:37 PM (This post was last modified: 18-05-2015 08:47 PM by TheGulegon.)
RE: Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
(18-05-2015 07:44 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  He's another example.

Anders Behring Breivik.

Neither Breivik, nor Tsarnaev, need be executed because neither have displayed a tendency to continuously make attempts on the lives of their captors!
All either of them (should) need do to keep from being eligible for execution & being granted the opportunity to live out the rest of their days in whatever peace they can manage for themselves behind bars, is to continue not trying to kill prison staff, or fellow inmates!

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18-05-2015, 08:53 PM
Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
What is so hard to accept about a guilty murderer needing to be put down?
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18-05-2015, 09:03 PM
RE: Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
Having the state involved with killing demeans everyone in the state. Bringing about a state of justice is not possible. "Getting justice for ...." is fake.
Lock em up and throw away the key.Make sure they are never heard from again, in any way. It's like torturing a cat. It dehumanizes the prepetrator. In the death penalty we becomes the perps.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-05-2015, 09:12 PM
RE: Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
If you can sentence someone to an eternity of solitary confinement without the possibility of sunlight, can I waterboard somebody for 20 seconds? Laugh out load

Unsure

mmm.... It sounded like a joke when it first popped into my head, I swear! Confused

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19-05-2015, 09:19 AM
RE: Death Penalty. A Means to an End or A Sadistic Action?
(18-05-2015 08:53 PM)KUSA Wrote:  What is so hard to accept about a guilty murderer needing to be put down?

It's kind of a contradiction. You shouldn't kill someone because it's bad, So we're going to kill you because it's good. The government on average has over 3,000 people a year on death row. Many death row inmates are sentenced because of one murder. (Now I'm not defending them, especially cold blooded killers) It's just that double standard.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/2014YrEnd.pdf

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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