Death and beyond
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06-02-2013, 06:33 PM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2013 06:37 PM by Adenosis.)
RE: Death and beyond
(21-02-2012 12:37 PM)Dom Wrote:  Not sure where to put this, but since I am a newbie here and I do believe that science will be providing the answer for this eventually, I am putting it here. Please feel free to move it.

I have witnessed a number of deaths now, both people and animals. And while there are things that appear to be in common, there are also a lot of individual differences.

But, regardless of causes of death and species, the one fact remains: There is an energy, and it then disappears from our view. You can pinpoint the exact second when it just disappears.

Now, physics tell us that energy always has to go some place.

Here is an overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy

I think that there is a lot more to energy than we know at this time. Humans have researched energy for a long time, since we like to harness it to do work for us. We have found a couple of different types of energy, and combinations thereof. We can only measure energy we are aware of. I find that extremely limiting. My thinking is that we haven't even scratched the surface yet, and when we do, it will blow religion out of the water.

All the religions I have looked at presume that after death we retain a thinking, feeling consciousness. I think that something does happen after death, but that there is no consciousness of any type. I think that an energy leaves the body and goes - where? Transforms -into what? Joins other energy - of what type?

When we have that answer, the whole heaven and hell business will not have a leg to stand on. (Not that it does now....)

Just random thoughts here....

The little energy that is in the body is in the form of chemical energy or heat. When we die the head dissipates and the body breaks down, including our consciousness producing brain. There is no reason to think that there is something that causes consciousness other than the trillions of neurons that make up the brain. We understand where the energy goes, into our surroundings. But it is not the energy that results in the consciousness, you could argue that it is energy in the presence of the brain, but even then the brain is still a requirement.


(06-02-2013 05:26 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(13-05-2012 01:28 PM)Dom Wrote:  I think of it more like electricity, which moves along and has no idea what it will power. Basically, IF there is something there, it stands to reason that it is being recycled like everything else in nature.

Yes, I would agree there is a kind of electricity that courses through all things - and specially life, most of all, the higher, complex life. The meditation I perform is called "transmission meditation" and it is focused on receiving and passing on the energy. I am aware of it. I feel it within, in days after meditation as an afterglow besides the normal energy levels.

For years I have read from many sources that there is a higher aspect of electricity than just a flow of electrons or ions. I have read of devices that open a switch, yet there is an alloy that delays the flow of electrons for a microsecond, and in the end of that microsecond the switch is closed again. Yet in that microsecond a capacitor on the other side of the switch is filled with a dose of power. Other times, I have read how Nikola Tesla created a transmission of energy through one wire only, by making a long, narrow coil. Another device of his created a sparking device, where the arc was extinguished extremely, imperceptibly fast by a strong magnetic field. This device made the higher aspect of electricity visible. It made a white, cold lightning. From this it got its name, "cold electricity" or "radiant energy".

Dear Luminion, I can no longer take anything you say seriously...

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06-02-2013, 07:25 PM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2013 07:31 PM by Luminon.)
RE: Death and beyond
(06-02-2013 06:33 PM)Aspchizo Wrote:  Dear Luminion, I can no longer take anything you say seriously...
You don't have to, it's my hobby and a work in progress. Hopefully in several months I will have some data and opinions from professionals, you might be interested in these.

Anyway, what makes you say so? That I wrote what I had read about? Did I say how certain I am about it? No, it is merely a source of information for me to consider, to sift through in searching for patterns. You assumed I fully subscribe to that? Rolleyes Let's say I suspend my judgement on such pieces of the puzzle and try to compare them to other pieces of the puzzle that I find along the way. To a distant observer it may seem like acceptance, but it is not. It is more like "thinking aloud". I can't be dogmatic about anything except my senses, logic and the journal science.

If you claim there are nuances to principles, there are no nuances to getting arrested or shot for disobeying the power.
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06-02-2013, 07:32 PM
RE: Death and beyond
(06-02-2013 07:25 PM)Luminon Wrote:  
(06-02-2013 06:33 PM)Aspchizo Wrote:  Dear Luminion, I can no longer take anything you say seriously...
You don't have to, it's my hobby and a work in progress. Hopefully in several months I will have some data and opinions from professionals, you might be interested in these.

Anyway, what makes you say so? That I wrote what I had read about? Did I say how certain I am about it? No, it is merely a source of information for me to consider, to sift through in searching for patterns. You assumed I fully subscribe to that? Rolleyes Let's say I suspend my judgement on such pieces of the puzzle and try to compare them to other pieces of the puzzle that I find along the way. To a distant observer it may seem like acceptance, but it is not. It is more like "thinking aloud". I can't be dogmatic about anything except my senses and the journal science, I can't change these, no matter what I do.

You implied that the examples you give imply there is an alternate aspect of electricity that we are not aware of. You leap at the chance to claim there is something science is unaware of in an indirect way of justifying your beliefs to yourself. What is so different from our current understanding of electromagnetism about the examples you posted? Each of those are examples of phenomena that fit into the current understanding of the force of electromagnetism. Perhaps you should take a couple classes in physics.

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06-02-2013, 08:26 PM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2013 08:45 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: Death and beyond
(21-02-2012 12:37 PM)Dom Wrote:  Not sure where to put this, but since I am a newbie here and I do believe that science will be providing the answer for this eventually, I am putting it here. Please feel free to move it.

I have witnessed a number of deaths now, both people and animals. And while there are things that appear to be in common, there are also a lot of individual differences.

But, regardless of causes of death and species, the one fact remains: There is an energy, and it then disappears from our view. You can pinpoint the exact second when it just disappears.

Now, physics tell us that energy always has to go some place.

Here is an overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy

I think that there is a lot more to energy than we know at this time. Humans have researched energy for a long time, since we like to harness it to do work for us. We have found a couple of different types of energy, and combinations thereof. We can only measure energy we are aware of. I find that extremely limiting. My thinking is that we haven't even scratched the surface yet, and when we do, it will blow religion out of the water.

All the religions I have looked at presume that after death we retain a thinking, feeling consciousness. I think that something does happen after death, but that there is no consciousness of any type. I think that an energy leaves the body and goes - where? Transforms -into what? Joins other energy - of what type?

When we have that answer, the whole heaven and hell business will not have a leg to stand on. (Not that it does now....)

Just random thoughts here....
This thread hurts my mind, but I'll clear up this misconception.

Blood is a specialized bodily fluid in animals that delivers necessary substances such as nutrients and oxygen to the cells and transports metabolic waste products away from those same cells.

No matter how you die, it will always be attributed to lack of oxygen/nutrients to the cells, and build up of cellular waste. Cells use oxygen, and nutrients to provide energy for their functions. The ingredients for energy stops flowing when the blood stops flowing, every ounce of energy in the stagnant blood is drained, and thus death results from energy starvation and waste build up.

So death is actually the starvation of energy, due to blood not flowing to carry away the waste and bring along more oxygen/nutrients.

The exception to this rule would be carbon monoxide, which means the cells are getting the nutrients but not the oxygen they need to turn said nutrients into energy. Food starvation works in the reverse, plenty of oxygen not enough nutrients.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_respiration
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hba...elres.html

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06-02-2013, 08:38 PM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2013 09:18 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: Death and beyond



Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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06-02-2013, 09:52 PM
RE: Death and beyond
(06-02-2013 08:26 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  Blood is a specialized bodily fluid in animals that delivers necessary substances such as nutrients and oxygen to the cells and transports metabolic waste products away from those same cells.

No matter how you die, it will always be attributed to lack of oxygen/nutrients to the cells, and build up of cellular waste.

The exception to this rule would be carbon monoxide, which means the cells are getting the nutrients but not the oxygen they need to turn said nutrients into energy. Food starvation works in the reverse, plenty of oxygen not enough nutrients.

Well said. Another exception is incineration Wink

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07-02-2013, 03:57 AM (This post was last modified: 07-02-2013 04:13 AM by Luminon.)
RE: Death and beyond
(06-02-2013 07:32 PM)Aspchizo Wrote:  You implied that the examples you give imply there is an alternate aspect of electricity that we are not aware of. You leap at the chance to claim there is something science is unaware of in an indirect way of justifying your beliefs to yourself. What is so different from our current understanding of electromagnetism about the examples you posted? Each of those are examples of phenomena that fit into the current understanding of the force of electromagnetism. Perhaps you should take a couple classes in physics.
I don't have time for classes in physics in about.. 4 years ahead at least. But you might tell me what is wrong about gathering supporting data. This is not statistics, it's a hunt. Misses don't matter, only hits. Of course, before I post anything as my own opinion I try to search for refutations and debunkings. First growing Heron's beard and then cutting it with Occam's razor - if somebody lends me brainpower. I can't do both at once! I'd love to see if both growing and cutting was a cooperative effort. Instead everyone defends rationality by applying Occam's razor too soon, afraid of growing the next religion or something. I wish I lived in more laid-back times. I'll remember to read Dr. Kanarev's look on this, he's also critical of this constant struggle. It's good to lay down the philosophy of searching for truth first.

I guess you're not willing to lend me your brainpower right now. But over the years I might want to go to a pub, look there for some physics students (they have a faculty nearby), pick one and buy him some beers. I'd ask him some questions on the original Maxwell equations, the physics of scalar wave and how it really was with the aether detection, dismissal and later re-introduction. It would be a pleasant evening in the pub, though I'd prefer to have it for free if I had a physics student as a roommate. My roomie is a chemist breakdance hip-hopper from Ukraine, he won't be much helpful in this.

If you claim there are nuances to principles, there are no nuances to getting arrested or shot for disobeying the power.
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