Poll: Pro or con death penalty
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25-01-2011, 02:11 PM
RE: Death penalty
(25-01-2011 01:02 AM)No J. Wrote:  When it comes to how people view killing other people, there is a huge discrepancy in all areas. I remember one conversation about self defense and the defense of loved ones where the person I was talking to said he wouldn't kill an axe wielding, raving lunatic to save either himself or his brother, even if the cost was getting killed or watching his brother get killed (his brother was there at that conversation). I was dumbfounded.
These are the things i talked about before. These aren't really arguments. this is just a way to make it personal. And face it... situations like that are very very rare. Almost beyond the point of being realistic.
(25-01-2011 10:02 AM)omega21 Wrote:  I am for it in certain situations. If it was a serial killer that killed innocent people for fun he or she should get the death penalty. However random situations in which someone just gets really angry and kills someone because of their anger then they should get life without parole.
I agree. This is logic and rational. But...
-This is not always clear
-When you are 100% sure you got the correct guy. But what if not? Where do you draw your line 99%? Guaranteed a handy lawyer has a case! Can you be sure about your 100% or even 99%?
-serial killers are rare. Are you really going to open Pandora's box for such a thing?
-how? bullet to the head? (graphic and painful) Hanging (slow) injection or elec chair (uncertain)

Observer

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28-01-2011, 01:48 PM
RE: Death penalty
I'm pro but not in it's current form. Too many States kill people that are questionable at best. I would also require hard evidence. People can get sent to death row for 'eye witness accounts'. Which are very unreliable.

That being said, there are people who are just wired wrong. They find it acceptable to have sex with children, kill, and rape. These people need to be removed from the gene pool.

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28-01-2011, 05:17 PM
RE: Death penalty
(28-01-2011 01:48 PM)aesirus Wrote:  I'm pro but not in it's current form. Too many States kill people that are questionable at best. I would also require hard evidence. People can get sent to death row for 'eye witness accounts'. Which are very unreliable.

That being said, there are people who are just wired wrong. They find it acceptable to have sex with children, kill, and rape. These people need to be removed from the gene pool.

I think that is a good description of how I feel. There are people who really deserve to die for what they've done. My issue with the death penalty is that often it's more about the punishment then the truth. There have been over 350 death row inmates exonerated since it was reinstated in the 1970s. The odds that we have not killed an innocent person are about zero. There are possibly 2 cases in Texas from the Governor W. Bush era and at least one of them is now getting a lot of attention (although to what end I don't know - the guys is dead).

A system where you deny people the right to challenge their convictions years later with DNA evidence because it violates the procedural requirements of introducing "new" evidence, despite the fact that the technology may not have existed when the person was convicted is, to me, not just unjust but insane. I'd rather kill no one then kill the wrong person. But, if you've got someone completely nailed, like the DC sniper from a few years ago, then fry the sucker.

As a side note, I always find it interesting how blood thirsty Christians are when it comes to the death penalty.

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28-01-2011, 05:39 PM
RE: Death penalty
(28-01-2011 05:17 PM)BnW Wrote:  As a side note, I always find it interesting how blood thirsty Christians are when it comes to the death penalty.

Maybe they don't want to give people the opportunity to repent, or they want them to suffer "eternal toture" for a longer time.

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
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28-01-2011, 07:50 PM
RE: Death penalty
(28-01-2011 05:17 PM)BnW Wrote:  As a side note, I always find it interesting how blood thirsty Christians are when it comes to the death penalty.

Add being rabidly pro-life and anti-euthanasia and it makes even less sense.

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29-01-2011, 08:06 AM (This post was last modified: 29-01-2011 05:46 PM by Observer.)
RE: Death penalty
While sitting at the fireplace watching the flames, something strange occurred to me.
I realized that I am passionately against death penalty but I am pro legal abortion.
Now there is something to be said for both or against both but that does not explain the passion I lay in it. Everything that can be said for or against death penalty can also be said for or against abortion. Cost to society, Moral questions, opening Pandora's box, questionable decisions on questionable analyses of a case.

So I sat there wondering why I thought that way. Not rational enough? Becoming crazy? Double standard?
I decided to look where I would find a difference in the two, to see where both would split up.

Then I knew it!
In Belgium, abortion is regulated via medical advisors, doctors and professors. While death penalty (The penalty still exists but it is not executed) is regulated via judges and jury.
My passion and opinion about both is mere a reflection on what group of pundits I trust the most!
Knowing this, I am amazed how easy your mind can get blinded by things you you think of as completely rational but which are, in fact, colored by emotion from the start.

To me, that's a challenging thought.
I am going to have to cut back on this topic until I got that sorted out.

Observer

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29-01-2011, 05:27 PM
RE: Death penalty
That is bigtime rational thinking. We need to teach that process to everyone. How to do that? Start with the children.

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
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29-01-2011, 05:45 PM
RE: Death penalty
(29-01-2011 05:27 PM)No J. Wrote:  That is bigtime rational thinking. We need to teach that process to everyone. How to do that? Start with the children.
I'm working on that no J, I'm working on that, starting with my own.

Observer

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29-01-2011, 07:54 PM
RE: Death penalty
(25-01-2011 02:11 PM)The_observer Wrote:  
(25-01-2011 01:02 AM)No J. Wrote:  When it comes to how people view killing other people, there is a huge discrepancy in all areas. I remember one conversation about self defense and the defense of loved ones where the person I was talking to said he wouldn't kill an axe wielding, raving lunatic to save either himself or his brother, even if the cost was getting killed or watching his brother get killed (his brother was there at that conversation). I was dumbfounded.
These are the things i talked about before. These aren't really arguments. this is just a way to make it personal. And face it... situations like that are very very rare. Almost beyond the point of being realistic.
(25-01-2011 10:02 AM)omega21 Wrote:  I am for it in certain situations. If it was a serial killer that killed innocent people for fun he or she should get the death penalty. However random situations in which someone just gets really angry and kills someone because of their anger then they should get life without parole.
I agree. This is logic and rational. But...
-This is not always clear
-When you are 100% sure you got the correct guy. But what if not? Where do you draw your line 99%? Guaranteed a handy lawyer has a case! Can you be sure about your 100% or even 99%?
-serial killers are rare. Are you really going to open Pandora's box for such a thing?
-how? bullet to the head? (graphic and painful) Hanging (slow) injection or elec chair (uncertain)

I see your points. I am going to agree. Perhaps the best course of action is to just give them life without perole and no death penalty. I am nuetral in all honesty on this issue.
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29-01-2011, 09:01 PM
RE: Death penalty
(23-01-2011 07:49 PM)No J. Wrote:  Good point, but is it worth the cost of keeping them in jail?

I generally stay out of the death penalty discussion because I view it on a case by case basis rather then have a strait stance.

Let's be honest here no one is 100% anti death penalty or 100% pro death penalty. We all think it may or may not be justified depending on the situation. In my mind the very point of forcing someone to have only two options on this poll breaks any real discussion.

But to address No J's post in specific there is such a huge amount of bureaucratic nonsense that goes along with capital punishment it often ends up costing substantially more to kill someone then to imprison them for life and make them work.

You may want to make it as simple as take them behind the jailhouse then shoot them and that's how it used to be done but in our society of lawyers controlling everything the process is deliberately expanded to create a vast amount of legal work.

The same problem exists in almost all developed countries who use the death penalty.
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