Poll: Does the United States have a problem with guns?
Yes. Guns are signficant source of social ill in the US
No. Guns are not a contributing factor to the social problems of the US
Both. Guns are an issue in the US but are both a part of the problem and part of the solution
Unsure.
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Debate the merits of guns in America (poll added)
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22-08-2013, 11:34 AM
RE: Debate the merits of guns in America (poll added)
(22-08-2013 05:25 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  In Jefferson's day ... technology comparable to military technology of the time...

Did civilians own mortars? Cannon with case shot? Even then that was really not the case...

I can recognize that the idea's important as a foundational myth, but it also has no bearing at all on the question of the thread: how much regulation should there be?

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22-08-2013, 11:57 AM
RE: Debate the merits of guns in America (poll added)
(22-08-2013 11:34 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(22-08-2013 05:25 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  In Jefferson's day ... technology comparable to military technology of the time...

Did civilians own mortars? Cannon with case shot? Even then that was really not the case...

I can recognize that the idea's important as a foundational myth, but it also has no bearing at all on the question of the thread: how much regulation should there be?

I don't know that civilians weren't allowed to own those things then (or even now for that matter). It is whether or not the technology was for individual use and protection and/or use as part of a militia as part of the US's standing civilian army.

The Supreme Court has ruled that it is the former (the last time they did so), which should mean that people shouldn't have the same access as a militia/army.

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22-08-2013, 12:11 PM
RE: Debate the merits of guns in America (poll added)
(22-08-2013 11:10 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Is this already the end of this thread? There are at least 8 people who say guns are part of the problem and solution, but have given no indication as to how guns are part of the solution.

No, I have only replied to two of your statements.

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22-08-2013, 12:12 PM
RE: Debate the merits of guns in America (poll added)
(22-08-2013 12:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-08-2013 11:10 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Is this already the end of this thread? There are at least 8 people who say guns are part of the problem and solution, but have given no indication as to how guns are part of the solution.

No, I have only replied to two of your statements.

I was hoping that some of the other gun enthusiasts who voted with you might also weigh in.

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22-08-2013, 12:20 PM
RE: Debate the merits of guns in America (poll added)
(22-08-2013 12:12 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(22-08-2013 12:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, I have only replied to two of your statements.

I was hoping that some of the other gun enthusiasts who voted with you might also weigh in.

I haven't voted. Dodgy

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22-08-2013, 12:22 PM
RE: Debate the merits of guns in America (poll added)
(22-08-2013 12:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-08-2013 12:12 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I was hoping that some of the other gun enthusiasts who voted with you might also weigh in.

I haven't voted. Dodgy

Indeed you haven't, which still leaves at least 8 people to join in on the conversation to give their side.

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22-08-2013, 02:51 PM
RE: Debate the merits of guns in America (poll added)
I'm one of the 8... I already gave my reasons, although possibly shoulda not voted at all... Simply that it seems that in America there are too many guns in the hands of the population for disarmament to be an option in the short term, so you guys are gonna have to find some way to tone down your gun problem which takes this into account.
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22-08-2013, 03:01 PM
RE: Debate the merits of guns in America (poll added)
(22-08-2013 02:51 PM)morondog Wrote:  I'm one of the 8... I already gave my reasons, although possibly shoulda not voted at all... Simply that it seems that in America there are too many guns in the hands of the population for disarmament to be an option in the short term, so you guys are gonna have to find some way to tone down your gun problem which takes this into account.

Yes, I think Beard and I agree on that.

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22-08-2013, 03:33 PM
RE: Debate the merits of guns in America (poll added)
(22-08-2013 05:25 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  First, who is proposing taking guns away?

Second, think about the scenario you are proposing for a minute. We live in a country where the 2 political factions can't even agree long enough to realize that constantly voting to try and repeal the affordable health care act, is counterproductive and costs us money.

In Jefferson's day we certainly had more worries about the individual civil liberties of our people. But we don't live in Jefferson's day anymore. There was no standing militia during Jefferson's day (excluding the Navy which was allowed under the Constitution and then as the Marines were being created, Jefferson wrote against the abuse of government power used to create them but then used them when he came to the presidency to attack the middle east), so the idea of people being able to protect themselves with technology comparable to military technology of the time was feasible. Today, is that still true or would the average citizen need access to much more sophisticated weapons? Do you want Joe Blow the YEC to have access to said weapons?

And how did you conclude I was talking about a gun confiscation threat in my OP. it's merely an explanation of the rationalization for the Second Amendment.

Actuall there WERE standing militias in Jefferson's day, several of which he used to put down the Whiskey Rebellion. Out of curiosity maintaining standing armies is, at least technically, unconstitutional, as it was believed this promoted tyranny.

As for YEC guys having heavy weaponry, they already do legally and pose no threat to anyone with them. They are, on average, far more competent with them than a typical secular atheist, who has very little experience with guns and shooting.

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22-08-2013, 03:35 PM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2013 03:45 PM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
RE: Debate the merits of guns in America (poll added)
(22-08-2013 11:57 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(22-08-2013 11:34 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Did civilians own mortars? Cannon with case shot? Even then that was really not the case...

I can recognize that the idea's important as a foundational myth, but it also has no bearing at all on the question of the thread: how much regulation should there be?

I don't know that civilians weren't allowed to own those things then (or even now for that matter). It is whether or not the technology was for individual use and protection and/or use as part of a militia as part of the US's standing civilian army.

The Supreme Court has ruled that it is the former (the last time they did so), which should mean that people shouldn't have the same access as a militia/army.

You can buy a mortar if you want one. Just like the conversation about grenade launchers, it's a Class III Other Destructive Device and requires an NFA tax stamp to purchase and about three months to file the paperwork and background check, but you can buy one.

Why, you ask, would someone want a mortar? Well, the Mythbusters summed it up best:

"Jamie wants big boom."

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

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