Debate with Theists- Be Honest
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04-11-2013, 08:49 PM
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
(04-11-2013 06:40 PM)DLJ Wrote:  I think you're asking about 'facepalm moments'.
Yep, that's the word I was looking for, but I wanted to know if atheists ever get surprised or embarrassed by atheists . Theists can recognise and even laugh at our own people sometimes, I was wondering if you ever had any facepalm moments where you thought 'if everyone judged atheism by what that guy just said, I wouldn't blame them for thinking we were idiots.'

(04-11-2013 06:40 PM)DLJ Wrote:  < Insert baseless assertion here >
< Insert nonsensical non sequitur here >
< insert bible quote here >
God loves you and is sending you to hell."
Yeah, got to agree with you on that one. Smile
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04-11-2013, 09:08 PM
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
(04-11-2013 08:49 PM)Yasmin Wrote:  Yep, that's the word I was looking for, but I wanted to know if atheists ever get surprised or embarrassed by atheists .

Of course we do, Atheism has no membership rules, and its term is extremely fuzzy.

Of the 5 self proclaimed Atheist friends I have, none pass my definition of it (skeptic/Atheist), they annoy me with anti american gov conspiracy nonsense, Alien visitation preponderance, 1 is a certified Ghost hunter.

My experience with theists is they will not criticize each other out of fear of weakening there own agenda. Even Crusaders and Shoe bombers keep a collusion when debating Atheism.

Look at how the rational Christians react to YEC, they privately say that evolution is fact, yet go along with the child abuse of dinosaur cowboys because it could be God's will.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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04-11-2013, 09:11 PM
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
It's pointless to debate/discuss things with people who, by their own admission, would never change their position--even in the face of what W. L. Craig would call "contemporary evidence to the contrary." An honest debate takes place between 2 parties that would be persuaded to abandon an untenable position by evidence and logical sense. Most of the theists that "interact" here show a startling confirmation bias and an unwillingness to even look at evidence provided in links, etc. These types become tedious and boring quickly. As for the professor rant, I can't really comment on it because I didn't see it, and it's unfair to form an opinion about something you no nothing about.
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04-11-2013, 09:17 PM
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
An Atheist mind is flexible with new evidence, a theist mind needs to snap before it accepts any evidence .

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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04-11-2013, 09:21 PM
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
(04-11-2013 09:17 PM)sporehux Wrote:  An Atheist mind is flexible with new evidence, a theist mind needs to snap before it accepts any evidence .

sic. Sometimes when they snap they end up in straitjackets and rubber rooms...
Or shooting rifles from bell towers.
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05-11-2013, 01:58 AM
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
(04-11-2013 09:17 PM)sporehux Wrote:  An Atheist mind is flexible with new evidence, a theist mind needs to snap before it accepts any evidence .

I don't think it's that simple... plenty of theists I know are extremely clever and have a scientific world-view. Frankly it baffles me that they are still theists.

For me... I'd not be embarrassed if some atheist made a lousy argument, but I do find I'm allergic to bullshit. So that Atwill guy, with his Roman conspiracy theories, can get fucked. So can most of the twerps who come up with some Jesus related crap, read an English translation of Josephus, make up some fuck-stupid theory and write a bestseller about it. Pseudo-history annoys the crap outta me.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-11-2013, 02:11 AM
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
(05-11-2013 01:58 AM)morondog Wrote:  Pseudo-history annoys the crap outta me.

not sure why it bothers me so much either.
All things are possible, but people get worked up over ancient alien nonsense.
I mean why do people accept unsubstantiated "ideas" from this retard as fact.
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Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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05-11-2013, 02:15 AM
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
I find a lot of teleological arguments drive me insane with their false assertions, cherrypicked data, etc. I find it hard to sit through debates with a strong teleological theme. Moral arguments can also drive me a little crazy. It's the apparent blanking of a person's mind to the possibility they are wrong, though, that is I guess my core frustration. Unless you are willing to critically examine both your existing beliefs and new information as it comes in, you'll never be open to any kind of reason. I appreciate "I don't know".

I quite like the promo video posted here[1] by Leif for "A manual for Creating Atheists". I like its definition of faith as "pretending to know things you don't know", and the use of "doxastic openness".

[1] http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid408764

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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05-11-2013, 02:26 AM (This post was last modified: 06-11-2013 03:37 AM by DLJ.)
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
OK, you asked for honesty so...

Actually I rarely facepalm at atheist's arguments but sometimes the approach taken is frustrating.

There is a tendency, for example on here (TTA forum), to shoot first before inquiring as to the position (i.e. definition of god) of a theist i.e. to blast an argument as 'preaching' before ascertaining whether there is a glimmer of hope of having a sensible discussion.

In other words, I would prefer to see more of...
Why do you feel / think that?

As opposed to...
You're a complete twat for thinking that.

In other, other words, we could be more inclusive (welcome to the community) and less exclusive (this is our community so piss off).


But, hey, where's the fun in that, right?

Big Grin

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05-11-2013, 11:09 PM
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
(05-11-2013 02:26 AM)DLJ Wrote:  As opposed to...
You're a complete twat for thinking that.

In other, other words, we could be more inclusive (welcome to the community) and less exclusive (this is our community so piss off).
For example, this stunning example from Stephen Fry. Not exactly from a debate but illustrates the not-helpful attitude.
Stephen Fry @stephenfry
Mary had a little lamb
It's fleece was white as snow
All you religious dicks
Just fuck off and go.
No more discussion with dickheads. Sorry.
2:02 AM - 23 Aug 2013
Pity, I used to have a lot of time for him. But in the words of Confucius 'respect others and they will respect you'

(05-11-2013 02:26 AM)DLJ Wrote:  But, hey, where's the fun in that, right?

Big Grin

So true. Anyway, I'll leave it to Jane Austen to explain the purpose of the internet: ''For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbours, and laugh at them in our turn?''
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