Debate with Theists- Be Honest
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07-11-2013, 01:42 AM
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
Quote:There are extremely intelligent theists. Donald Knuth, for example, is a Lutheran, and he is a genius.
That's interesting. Not that it ever crossed my mind to wonder about his beliefs, but Knuth pretty much *is* God in computing circles Tongue

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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07-11-2013, 02:06 AM
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
You two... stay in your room. Dodgy

Anyhoo... we can only be mortally stupid atheists. Dodgy

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07-11-2013, 03:07 AM
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
(07-11-2013 01:42 AM)morondog Wrote:  
Quote:There are extremely intelligent theists. Donald Knuth, for example, is a Lutheran, and he is a genius.
That's interesting. Not that it ever crossed my mind to wonder about his beliefs, but Knuth pretty much *is* God in computing circles Tongue

And not just a "cultural Christian" like Dennett:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...Id=4532247
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07-11-2013, 06:17 AM
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
(07-11-2013 03:07 AM)Chippy Wrote:  
(07-11-2013 01:42 AM)morondog Wrote:  That's interesting. Not that it ever crossed my mind to wonder about his beliefs, but Knuth pretty much *is* God in computing circles Tongue

And not just a "cultural Christian" like Dennett:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...Id=4532247

... and so was Isaac Newton.

I don't see how this is relevant to the OP.

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07-11-2013, 06:31 AM
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
(07-11-2013 03:07 AM)Chippy Wrote:  
(07-11-2013 01:42 AM)morondog Wrote:  That's interesting. Not that it ever crossed my mind to wonder about his beliefs, but Knuth pretty much *is* God in computing circles Tongue

And not just a "cultural Christian" like Dennett:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...Id=4532247

I can't tell what your point is. Dennett is an atheist.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-11-2013, 06:36 AM
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
(07-11-2013 12:19 AM)Yasmin Wrote:  
(06-11-2013 07:15 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  It's not axiomatically true that if you respect others they will respect you. I think the actual Confucius quote is "己所不欲,勿施于人 (What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others)"[1] ie the golden rule. In particular, religiously-motivated homophobic bullying is not going to be subdued by the victim offering up respect to his abusers. Your quote[2] doesn't dent my respect for Stephen Wink

But yes, I would wish for less name calling and more effective reasoned debate and discussion than we sometimes see on this forum.

[1] http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Confucius#Other_chapters
[2] https://twitter.com/stephenfry/status/37...9431045120
Serves me right for trying to source quotes from outside my own territory Blush
I've always tried to abide by the golden rule- especially on forums- not because I necessarily think people will treat me better for it, but because at least then I know I haven't said anything I couldn't respect myself for.

I agree - I was yanking your chain a little... but at the same time if I made a poor argument or relied on poor quality sources I'd want someone to pick me up on it and correct me Wink I'd rather be corrected so I'm right eventually than to go on spouting falsehood and never realise I'm wrong.

That said I don't mind cutting to the core of an argument in a gritty manner to shake someone loose from their well practised, finger-in-the-ears debating foil[3].

[3] http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid404846

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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07-11-2013, 10:28 AM (This post was last modified: 07-11-2013 05:50 PM by Cathym112.)
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
(07-11-2013 01:37 AM)Chippy Wrote:  
(06-11-2013 07:15 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Happens all the time. Look at any of Chippy's posts and you will see his ridiculous need to not only be an expert on everything - which betrays an obscene superiority complex - but he does so in such a way that turns anyone off to listening to him.

That would be worth re-telling if you were correct. You were wrong about that also.

No. You are the resident expert on enemas and douche bags.


(07-11-2013 01:37 AM)Chippy Wrote:  Regarding the worst arguments you would definitely be a candidate. You were losing an argument with excubitor so you basically just agreed with him and said something to the effect of "but your god is crap so I wouldn't worship him anyway". The argument was about the existence of god and your killer argument was it doesn't matter if he exists. Great argument.

Actually no. The name of the thread was "if god exists, he is not someone I would follow." My argument for the purposes of that thread was not god's existence, but his douchbaggery. You concede hypotheticals for the purpose of arguments all the time. The point of that thread was to say, alright, Theists..your God exists. But he is a dick so why should I follow/worship him?
(07-11-2013 01:37 AM)Chippy Wrote:  Then there was also your Matrix argument...

The point of that was to point out to you that sometimes, being deeply philosophical in EVERY. SINGLE. ARGUMENT. "Define the color red..." crap is nausatingly tiresome.

(07-11-2013 01:37 AM)Chippy Wrote:  You suck at arguing a point and you know I can argue a point and that is why you PMd me seeking my help. That is going to stick in your craw for some time. Good.

I asked for your help, very nicely, because I didn't realize that Chippy and Clappy were the same person. Further, I wanted to see how you articulated it. I freely admit that I can learn things from other people. You on the other hand, know everything.

(07-11-2013 01:37 AM)Chippy Wrote:  One of the reasons I am so abrasive towards some of the people on this forum is because I want to give them a taste of their own medicine--and that I have. You are one of the people on this forum that calls all theists stupid and ignorant.

No, you are a tiny flaccid dick for the sake of being one.

(07-11-2013 01:37 AM)Chippy Wrote:  There are extremely intelligent theists. Donald Knuth, for example, is a Lutheran, and he is a genius. I wouldn't dare even imply that I am more intelligent than Knuth merely because I don't believe in a God. You apparently have no such concern.

When did I every say that all theists are stupid? I never once said that, because its not anything I think. Making things up, you are.

(07-11-2013 01:37 AM)Chippy Wrote:  All of my encounters on this forum with theists have been mutually respectful and I haven't insulted their intelligence by serving them up canned and reheated arguments. The canned and reheated argument is your staple and you can't even do that well.

I guess not anymore than your canned and reheated superiority complex, or your sidestepping and hairsplitting, and your style of making any debate - so muddled in superfluous vocabulary - it makes the debate largely inaccessible to a mostly non-participatory audience...except the ones that are tired of your heaping and steaming piles of bullshit. So i guess if you are going for word count - thats your move. And you do that pretty damn well.
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07-11-2013, 11:13 AM
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
(07-11-2013 01:42 AM)morondog Wrote:  
Quote:There are extremely intelligent theists. Donald Knuth, for example, is a Lutheran, and he is a genius.
That's interesting. Not that it ever crossed my mind to wonder about his beliefs, but Knuth pretty much *is* God in computing circles Tongue

Go"del, famous logician, was also a believer. He even gave a proof of God.
Probably the best proof ever given, and yet, still flawed.
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07-11-2013, 01:49 PM
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
(07-11-2013 11:13 AM)black_squirrel Wrote:  
(07-11-2013 01:42 AM)morondog Wrote:  That's interesting. Not that it ever crossed my mind to wonder about his beliefs, but Knuth pretty much *is* God in computing circles Tongue

Go"del, famous logician, was also a believer. He even gave a proof of God.
Probably the best proof ever given, and yet, still flawed.

Blink Godel ? Holy shit. Peddling proofs of God ? Surely it was a joke like Euler's famous one ? Or was he serious ?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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07-11-2013, 05:31 PM
RE: Debate with Theists- Be Honest
(07-11-2013 06:36 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  if I made a poor argument or relied on poor quality sources I'd want someone to pick me up on it and correct me Wink I'd rather be corrected so I'm right eventually than to go on spouting falsehood and never realise I'm wrong.

How else do we learn? The theist or atheist who think they always know everything or doesn't acknowledge that someone else might have something to teach them is never going to get very far. Smile
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