Debates with a believer Boyfriend
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25-02-2013, 06:10 PM
RE: Debates with a believer Boyfriend
Hey Peanut. It's natural you two disagree. It's not important what specifically do you believe, it's important how you got to it and what do you expect from that.

I think there may be a truce simply based on what you want from your worldview. You want a precise, real knowledge that is objective and works. Your BF wants to believe, he wants comfort - or something like that. If you asked him to define what is god, how does he look like, where is hell and heaven located, what is the soul made of, he could not reply. You needn't to ask him specifically, but you should show him what do you mean by an actual factual knowledge. If you know something, it means something. When he "knows" something, it doesn't mean anything. It just means his parents had put these vague thoughts into his head.
Try to educate him a little. Show him, that pain is a product of flesh and nerves and that these things rot when we die, so we can not feel pain after death. Show him that fire is an exothermic chemical reaction, first there's blue light produced by electrons changing orbitals and then this energy makes the black soot (carbon) glow, so that there's the yellow flame. Show him that these things are concrete concepts and we have no right to make up magical flames and magical pain in a magical place while other people are in another magical place. Show him what is it like to be you, to take seriously only non-magical things. Preparing for living in a magical place is like buying property on the moon. Do you think he can handle that idea?

But when it comes to children... No Religious people have this habit of seeing a new mind as a blank page ready to write their beliefs all over it. Make sure your BF understands the difference between facts and beliefs and that you have a final word in what the child learns.

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25-02-2013, 07:43 PM
RE: Debates with a believer Boyfriend
(25-02-2013 11:21 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-02-2013 11:19 AM)59pEaNUt89 Wrote:  I've invested so much into it. I strive to make sure I don't go from boyfriend to boyfriend for the sake of my son. Sad
Three years of time getting to know somebody seems like a lot to throw away just because we don't see eye to eye on religion. Trust me, I have been worrying myself about what I want and what's best.


Do you feel that the wrong relationship s better than no relationship?
The longer you hang on to this one, the longer you will be blocked from finding a good one.

Your choice. Drinking Beverage

^ There is no better answer than this one right here ^

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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25-02-2013, 09:35 PM
RE: Debates with a believer Boyfriend
(25-02-2013 11:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-02-2013 11:47 AM)Starcrash Wrote:  Or you could leave him as Chas suggested, though I think it's rather irrational to leave him over something that you clearly recognized and ok'ed up to this point.


Well, it's not irrational because it appears to be no longer OK, it has become an issue.

It has "become an issue" because Peanut has made it an issue. It doesn't appear that her boyfriend is proselytizing or pushing his belief on her Set your bias aside and put yourself in his shoes: imagine your lover says that she can't be with you anymore because you're an atheist. You didn't do anything to make her uncomfortable except to simply continue being an atheist, something that she knew all along and had accepted. Would you be alright with her sudden inability to continue a relationship with you on the basis of your simply being you?

At this point you may be tempted to say, "I'd be better off without a theist girlfriend", but that means you're not putting yourself in his shoes. With the information that we've been given, it would appear that the boyfriend is still cool with it and has no problem with this difference. I imagine he would have a problem with being dumped for no reason. It's irrational. Set aside your bias and try to look at it objectively.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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25-02-2013, 09:40 PM
RE: Debates with a believer Boyfriend
(25-02-2013 07:43 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  
(25-02-2013 11:21 AM)Chas Wrote:  Do you feel that the wrong relationship s better than no relationship?
The longer you hang on to this one, the longer you will be blocked from finding a good one.

Your choice. Drinking Beverage

^ There is no better answer than this one right here ^

If you're the type of person that handles a relationship problem by getting a new relationship rather than fixing the problem, I suppose it's a great answer. By the way, I don't love working. Should I quit my job?

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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25-02-2013, 09:48 PM
RE: Debates with a believer Boyfriend
(25-02-2013 09:35 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(25-02-2013 11:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  Well, it's not irrational because it appears to be no longer OK, it has become an issue.

It has "become an issue" because Peanut has made it an issue. It doesn't appear that her boyfriend is proselytizing or pushing his belief on her Set your bias aside and put yourself in his shoes: imagine your lover says that she can't be with you anymore because you're an atheist. You didn't do anything to make her uncomfortable except to simply continue being an atheist, something that she knew all along and had accepted. Would you be alright with her sudden inability to continue a relationship with you on the basis of your simply being you?

At this point you may be tempted to say, "I'd be better off without a theist girlfriend", but that means you're not putting yourself in his shoes. With the information that we've been given, it would appear that the boyfriend is still cool with it and has no problem with this difference. I imagine he would have a problem with being dumped for no reason. It's irrational. Set aside your bias and try to look at it objectively.
She changed and now it's an issue. This is not about me.

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26-02-2013, 12:34 AM
RE: Debates with a believer Boyfriend
(25-02-2013 09:40 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(25-02-2013 07:43 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  ^ There is no better answer than this one right here ^

If you're the type of person that handles a relationship problem by getting a new relationship rather than fixing the problem, I suppose it's a great answer. By the way, I don't love working. Should I quit my job?
How are you planning on fixing that problem you have at work ?
Are you going to try and alter the personalities of the people you work with, perhaps convince Joe he shouldn't be such a jerk or that Harold should stop his sexual harassment. Maybe steer the company in a different direction.

If this was a relationship issue, sure try to fix it, but this is a personality conflict in which one person views reality and the other person has a delusion that isn't going to go away. This is a fundamental difference in brain function. This isn't a trust issue or jealousy or one person not doing the dishes.

I've had conflicts at work with people who thought that my weekend vacation to another country meant that I was leaving all my family and friends and work to illegally get a job in that country while I was on vacation and that I wouldn't be returning.
They were some of the most irrational people I've ever dealt with. There is no fixing that.

Peanut here is involved with a highly irrational man who firmly believes that two of every species on the ENTIRE planet fit inside a boat as the world flooded. That is a total disconnection with reality. This isn't a relationship issue.

So yes, moving on, moving away from the irrational is a good thing.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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26-02-2013, 02:28 AM
RE: Debates with a believer Boyfriend
Just to add my two cents...Im an atheist, married to a christian wife who is mother of my kid. We don't have a problem because neither of us make it a problem...we accept each other faults and all. Just my experience, but whether Atheist or Theist you will never find the perfect person. Question is, other than the religion topic...are you happy with the relationship?

Maybe there is a deeper underlying need that is driving you to want to "talk about it". i.e. needing to connect on a deeper level, needing common ground, needing to feel you can trust...idk, just a few ideas. Perhaps there are other avenues you can use to meet those same needs?

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09-03-2013, 01:19 PM
RE: Debates with a believer Boyfriend
I think it's crazy that people think you two shouldn't be together! I've been married to a theist for eight years now, and we simply do not talk about religion. He goes to church a few times a month while I get some laundry done. When a family member of his asked while I never went to church with them, I simply told them "for the same reason I don't go to football games with him--I don't care." I am not here to impress anyone and I am free to believe what I want. If I choose to believe there is no god, so be it. I will not, however, try to sway his opinion. He believes in god-great. If it gives him some sort of standards of morals to believe in and can make him a better person, I'm all for it. I don't judge his beliefs, I simply disagree. If he has a problem with me not believing, that's on him. Again, I am not alive to impress him. If he has a serious problem with it, he is more than free to be with someone else, but religion will never play a role in my marriage. We have other problems-money, children, etc-that take up our stress levels and if religion ever becomes a topic of debate, I find something else that we disagree about (my 12 year old wants a belly button ring and we argue about how old she has to be), and we can argue about that. The subject of religion between us will never be compromised, so why waste time and energy arguing over it?

~Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned.~
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09-03-2013, 10:28 PM
RE: Debates with a believer Boyfriend
(26-02-2013 12:34 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  How are you planning on fixing that problem you have at work ?
Are you going to try and alter the personalities of the people you work with, perhaps convince Joe he shouldn't be such a jerk or that Harold should stop his sexual harassment. Maybe steer the company in a different direction.
...

They were some of the most irrational people I've ever dealt with. There is no fixing that.

Peanut here is involved with a highly irrational man who firmly believes that two of every species on the ENTIRE planet fit inside a boat as the world flooded. That is a total disconnection with reality. This isn't a relationship issue.

So yes, moving on, moving away from the irrational is a good thing.

I don't have a problem with my job, I'd just rather be on the couch playing video games and getting paid for it. My dislike of work (in general) is not a good reason to quit my job any more than a person's bias against Christianity is a good reason to avoid every Christian on the planet. Being a mature adult means doing things that you don't feel like doing without throwing a tantrum, in my opinion.

"There is no fixing that"? Of course there is. I was raised a Christian, and I used to believe the literal story of Noah's ark. Now I don't. So obviously, that sort of thinking can be "fixed". It wasn't a disconnection with reality because, as stupid as the story is, I lived in an echo chamber where I was surrounded by people who believed that stupid story and justified it by skewing the facts (such as "it was a huge boat that took over 100 years to construct" and "there are scientists (uncited) that say two of every animal could fit with ease"). So the reality that I spent my time in was one that I'd only be disconnected with if I questioned the story of Noah's ark.

But no matter how delusional the belief, it is simply a relationship issue. Have you heard the saying "agree to disagree"? Not everyone has to see things the way you do in order to live with them, form relationships with them, or even to have peaceful discussions with them. Irrationality isn't a disease. You can spend time with irrational people and continue to be rational yourself.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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09-03-2013, 10:32 PM
RE: Debates with a believer Boyfriend
(09-03-2013 01:19 PM)kellyrm Wrote:  I think it's crazy that people think you two shouldn't be together! I've been married to a theist for eight years now, and we simply do not talk about religion. He goes to church a few times a month while I get some laundry done. When a family member of his asked while I never went to church with them, I simply told them "for the same reason I don't go to football games with him--I don't care." I am not here to impress anyone and I am free to believe what I want. If I choose to believe there is no god, so be it. I will not, however, try to sway his opinion. He believes in god-great. If it gives him some sort of standards of morals to believe in and can make him a better person, I'm all for it. I don't judge his beliefs, I simply disagree. If he has a problem with me not believing, that's on him. Again, I am not alive to impress him. If he has a serious problem with it, he is more than free to be with someone else, but religion will never play a role in my marriage. We have other problems-money, children, etc-that take up our stress levels and if religion ever becomes a topic of debate, I find something else that we disagree about (my 12 year old wants a belly button ring and we argue about how old she has to be), and we can argue about that. The subject of religion between us will never be compromised, so why waste time and energy arguing over it?

I'm with you, Kelly. This atheist been married to a Catholic for 27 years now. It's simply not an issue with us. And can't even start to appreciate why it should be. There are always more immediate and pressing concerns to deal with than bickering over any ultimately meaningless metaphysical differences.

I am us and we is me. ... bitches.
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