Debating Theists
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03-11-2012, 09:38 PM
RE: Debating Theists
Then let's help you get better! Smile How about this? Don't be afraid, the only person who does not learn is someone who is afraid to ask questions, admit perhaps their arguments may be weak, or someone who is unwilling to dig. No harm, no foul.
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03-11-2012, 09:38 PM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2012 10:34 PM by Atothetheist.)
RE: Debating Theists
(03-11-2012 09:30 PM)Jack Wrote:  Cool, I like the "God is imaginary" link.

Sometimes I can have success in a debate by asking if the person believes Allah exists too(seems like a lot of christians don't think fondly of islam). If they say no, I can argue that there is no more evidence to support Allah's existence then their god, and work to prove that their god is in their mind. And if they say yes, I will cite the 2nd of the ten commandments.


Anyway, just looking to expand my knowledge on the subject so I can get better at this.
Well, you could really mindfuck them and say that the "Ten Commandments" they are commonly known as the "Ten Commandments" were destroyed and replaced by the Official Ten Commandments(Which are really different in some areas)

So, the Ten Commandments that we usually know, are NOT the Ten Commandments that God calls the Ten Commandments.

Seriously, Check it out!

Source:

The Bible : Exodus 34: 10-28

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=NIV

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03-11-2012, 11:25 PM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2012 11:29 PM by Misanthropik.)
RE: Debating Theists
Much like a soldier fighting a war; debating isn't simply a matter of pointing an intellectual rifle and pulling the trigger. More than that, it's about tactic. The ability to enter a battlefield without knowing who or what is going to be thrown at you, and being able to be effective against your opponent while running, jumping and shooting. You have to know when and where to flank your opponent, when and where to place a carefully-aimed shot, and ultimately when to move in to take the enemy's stronghold.

Some people are good at effectively navigating the battlefield. Others are not. The best way - I've found - to strengthen your debate skills is to get out there and debate frequently. You'll lose many at first, but the more familiar you become with fallacies, recurring arguments that opponents bring up (these will become predictable based on the topic); the more tuned your senses will be to what moves you need to make, when you need to make them, how you need to make them, and what the repreocuttions of them will be on your enemy. Then, you'll be able to predict how your enemy will react to a particular move, and thus, you'll have an effective defense ready.

It's an art, really. The art of war.

EDIT: And when it comes to theists, it can at times be overwhelming. Their arguments can be complex, especially when they argue from philosophy (it's the last safe-haven their God has in which to hide). But in those moments, when you feel like you can't effectively argue against them, just remember that no matter how complex or impressive some of their arguments may be; they're still arguing for the existence of an invisible sky-daddy who's existence can neither be observed nor validated. Thus, they've already lost. The only thing to do now is to find the soft spot in which to place the fatal blow.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
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04-11-2012, 12:20 AM
RE: Debating Theists
Personally winning the battle is when they gain the ability to doubt.

Winning the war is for the believer to do.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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04-11-2012, 12:46 AM
 
RE: Debating Theists
You can't ever prove God doesn't exist when every common sense observation suggest that He does.

You can't debate away the impact the life and teachings of Jesus Christ have had on the world.

Atheism only creates a void, it doesn't fill what it removes, therefore, psychologically speaking, it's not a solution for anyone.

I suggest you simply don't debate. No
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04-11-2012, 12:49 AM
RE: Debating Theists
(04-11-2012 12:46 AM)Egor Wrote:  You can't ever prove God doesn't exist when every common sense observation suggest that He does.

You can't debate away the impact the life and teachings of Jesus Christ have had on the world.

Atheism only creates a void, it doesn't fill what it removes, therefore, psychologically speaking, it's not a solution for anyone.

I suggest you simply don't debate. No
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E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
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2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
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04-11-2012, 12:51 AM
RE: Debating Theists
(03-11-2012 08:56 PM)Jack Wrote:  If I quote the Old Testament, they'll explain that it "doesn't apply" because of the new covenant.
Jesus said not one jot or tittle would pass from the law until all things were accomplished. They have not been. (Matthew 5:18)

The real question is, what are your trying to accomplish ?
Are you trying to provoke a "crisis of faith" in them ? Or are you trying to lead them, carefully to the truth ?
If you're attempting to pull the rug out from under them, their sanity is actually involved, and it could be a very serious situation.
Maybe debating is not the best approach for educating people. ??
Deconversion is a complex enterprise, and it's not a game, or a sport. It's a long, complex process, for those who have those concepts embedded since early childhood.




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04-11-2012, 12:53 AM
RE: Debating Theists
(04-11-2012 12:46 AM)Egor Wrote:  You can't ever prove God doesn't exist when every common sense observation suggest that He does.

You can't debate away the impact the life and teachings of Jesus Christ have had on the world.

Atheism only creates a void, it doesn't fill what it removes, therefore, psychologically speaking, it's not a solution for anyone.

I suggest you simply don't debate. No
While I disagree with what you say, I shall not defend to the death your right to say it; as it is flawed.

Good day sir!

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04-11-2012, 02:06 AM
RE: Debating Theists
(04-11-2012 12:51 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(03-11-2012 08:56 PM)Jack Wrote:  If I quote the Old Testament, they'll explain that it "doesn't apply" because of the new covenant.
Jesus said not one jot or tittle would pass from the law until all things were accomplished. They have not been. (Matthew 5:18)

The real question is, what are your trying to accomplish ?
Are you trying to provoke a "crisis of faith" in them ? Or are you trying to lead them, carefully to the truth ?
If you're attempting to pull the rug out from under them, their sanity is actually involved, and it could be a very serious situation.
Maybe debating is not the best approach for educating people. ??
Deconversion is a complex enterprise, and it's not a game, or a sport. It's a long, complex process, for those who have those concepts embedded since early childhood.
I agree with Bucky here. Deconversion shouldn't be taken up as a hobby. You're messing with people's psyches. It's like doing brain surgery on someone with no training. Too risky.


My plan now is to not engage any theist confrontationally. My new modus operandi is subterfuge. Rather than argue with them, get to know them personally. Take them out for a sandwich and an iced tea. Demonstrate that you are a nice person as well as an atheist. Lead by example without confronting their ideology. And don't plan on accomplishing a deconversion, just hope for one.

EDIT: It should be noted it is not likely I will ever get an opportunity to put my plan into action. I don't often discuss my atheism with anyone but known atheists (IRL).

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04-11-2012, 02:09 AM
RE: Debating Theists
(04-11-2012 12:46 AM)Egor Wrote:  I suggest you simply don't debate. No
Agree with this part....but for different reasons. Tongue

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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