Debating creationist.
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24-09-2015, 04:25 AM
Debating creationist.
Got a question!
Clearly you guys would have encounted this ridiculous question
Every time I argue with my uncle and cousin, I always get the well how do you explain the Holy Spirit. He got baptised and now speaks in tongues which to me just sounds like his speaking jibberish, I know lots of atheist have been able to speak in tongues. Is this something they teach you in the church? Or could it have been his just youtubed it and listen to everyone else speaking it and copied.
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24-09-2015, 04:53 AM
RE: Debating creationist.
(24-09-2015 04:25 AM)Luke.furlong Wrote:  Got a question!
Clearly you guys would have encounted this ridiculous question
Every time I argue with my uncle and cousin, I always get the well how do you explain the Holy Spirit. He got baptised and now speaks in tongues which to me just sounds like his speaking jibberish, I know lots of atheist have been able to speak in tongues. Is this something they teach you in the church? Or could it have been his just youtubed it and listen to everyone else speaking it and copied.

I doubt if they could be rationalized with, try this explanation:

Glossolalia

I can go into a Pentecostal church and speak in tongues as good as the pastor, they wouldn't even know I'm an atheist and laughing at their idiocy while I do it, how would they explain that?

The difference between the faithful and fraudulent is nil.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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24-09-2015, 05:02 AM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2015 06:38 AM by Octapulse.)
RE: Debating creationist.
Repeat after me:

Shondo bondo shuda bata handa

Anybody can do this, it doesn't require a the aid of a supernatural force. When you look at the biblical account of speaking in tongues, it was different that what is seen today. Apostles supposedly spoke and was understood by people who spoke a different language and heard the apostle in their own language. You don't hear christians claim this as a part of tongues today because in the diverse multicultural society in which we live, it is very easy to verify that this is bullshit. So what do they do? The say, well it for personal edification and we are speaking with the tongues of angels to god, or someone may have a word to speak in tongues and someone in the congregation will translate it (Which always turns out to be some hyper-generic, god has a calling/blessing/is present/knows what you are dealing with, kinda message that smacks of fortune cookies and hotline psychics). Because there is no supernatural, they have to alter it so it still appears supernatural without having any substance to it.

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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24-09-2015, 07:20 AM
RE: Debating creationist.
Because the claim is coming from bible-believing Christians, I might have a decent counterargument up my sleeve which comes from the Jewish perspective. I can't give you citations in the bible right now because I don't immediately have the free time to dig through my bible. If you think this sort of argument will resonate with them, then I'll find you the citations.

Basically, the "OT" was written by Jews, for Jews. In it, God is clearly defined and well understood by the Hebrews, and examples of idolatry are clearly spelled out. It says (somewhere in there) that idolatry will feel good, it will give people a fuzzy feeling inside, and they will mistake it for being God. It's a deceptive feeling! It also says that idolatry will be on earth right up until the messiah comes. Clearly, the messiah isn't here, so idolatry must still exist.

Given your christian family members are not Jewish, they must be reminded that the bible was written to a group of people with a different understanding of God. Their religion is regarded as idolatry by the very people who wrote the book, and they ARE in fact getting that fuzzy, warm feeling about their practice (speaking in tongues), exactly as the book predicts.

If the bible is true (and your christian family will insist that it is), then how can they be so sure that they're not the idolaters that the book is describing?
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24-09-2015, 07:30 AM
RE: Debating creationist.
(24-09-2015 07:20 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Because the claim is coming from bible-believing Christians, I might have a decent counterargument up my sleeve which comes from the Jewish perspective. I can't give you citations in the bible right now because I don't immediately have the free time to dig through my bible. If you think this sort of argument will resonate with them, then I'll find you the citations.

Basically, the "OT" was written by Jews, for Jews. In it, God is clearly defined and well understood by the Hebrews, and examples of idolatry are clearly spelled out. It says (somewhere in there) that idolatry will feel good, it will give people a fuzzy feeling inside, and they will mistake it for being God. It's a deceptive feeling! It also says that idolatry will be on earth right up until the messiah comes. Clearly, the messiah isn't here, so idolatry must still exist.

Given your christian family members are not Jewish, they must be reminded that the bible was written to a group of people with a different understanding of God. Their religion is regarded as idolatry by the very people who wrote the book, and they ARE in fact getting that fuzzy, warm feeling about their practice (speaking in tongues), exactly as the book predicts.

If the bible is true (and your christian family will insist that it is), then how can they be so sure that they're not the idolaters that the book is describing?

[Image: 49708583.jpg] Facepalm

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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24-09-2015, 07:34 AM
RE: Debating creationist.
(24-09-2015 07:30 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 07:20 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Because the claim is coming from bible-believing Christians, I might have a decent counterargument up my sleeve which comes from the Jewish perspective. I can't give you citations in the bible right now because I don't immediately have the free time to dig through my bible. If you think this sort of argument will resonate with them, then I'll find you the citations.

Basically, the "OT" was written by Jews, for Jews. In it, God is clearly defined and well understood by the Hebrews, and examples of idolatry are clearly spelled out. It says (somewhere in there) that idolatry will feel good, it will give people a fuzzy feeling inside, and they will mistake it for being God. It's a deceptive feeling! It also says that idolatry will be on earth right up until the messiah comes. Clearly, the messiah isn't here, so idolatry must still exist.

Given your christian family members are not Jewish, they must be reminded that the bible was written to a group of people with a different understanding of God. Their religion is regarded as idolatry by the very people who wrote the book, and they ARE in fact getting that fuzzy, warm feeling about their practice (speaking in tongues), exactly as the book predicts.

If the bible is true (and your christian family will insist that it is), then how can they be so sure that they're not the idolaters that the book is describing?

[Image: 49708583.jpg] Facepalm

I do not think you intended that as a complement..... Dodgy
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24-09-2015, 07:38 AM
RE: Debating creationist.
(24-09-2015 07:20 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Because the claim is coming from bible-believing Christians, I might have a decent counterargument up my sleeve which comes from the Jewish perspective. I can't give you citations in the bible right now because I don't immediately have the free time to dig through my bible. If you think this sort of argument will resonate with them, then I'll find you the citations.

Basically, the "OT" was written by Jews, for Jews. In it, God is clearly defined and well understood by the Hebrews, and examples of idolatry are clearly spelled out. It says (somewhere in there) that idolatry will feel good, it will give people a fuzzy feeling inside, and they will mistake it for being God. It's a deceptive feeling! It also says that idolatry will be on earth right up until the messiah comes. Clearly, the messiah isn't here, so idolatry must still exist.

Given your christian family members are not Jewish, they must be reminded that the bible was written to a group of people with a different understanding of God. Their religion is regarded as idolatry by the very people who wrote the book, and they ARE in fact getting that fuzzy, warm feeling about their practice (speaking in tongues), exactly as the book predicts.

If the bible is true (and your christian family will insist that it is), then how can they be so sure that they're not the idolaters that the book is describing?

Yeah, from he Jewish perspective, Jesus is just a false adhoc addition to the OT god. I think they would kind of go nuts if that was presented to them. Laugh out load

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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24-09-2015, 07:41 AM
RE: Debating creationist.
(24-09-2015 07:34 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 07:30 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  [Image: 49708583.jpg] Facepalm

I do not think you intended that as a complement..... Dodgy

Please forgive me, I haven't had my coffee this morning. It's a weak arguement because 1. There is no scripture linking idolatry to warm fuzzy feelings and 2. It pre-supposes that all believers receive warm fuzzy feelings from the practice of speaking tongues. When I was a believer, I spoke in tongues and never felt anything from it. It's like trying to fight bullshit with even more bullshit

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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24-09-2015, 07:42 AM
RE: Debating creationist.
(24-09-2015 07:38 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 07:20 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Because the claim is coming from bible-believing Christians, I might have a decent counterargument up my sleeve which comes from the Jewish perspective. I can't give you citations in the bible right now because I don't immediately have the free time to dig through my bible. If you think this sort of argument will resonate with them, then I'll find you the citations.

Basically, the "OT" was written by Jews, for Jews. In it, God is clearly defined and well understood by the Hebrews, and examples of idolatry are clearly spelled out. It says (somewhere in there) that idolatry will feel good, it will give people a fuzzy feeling inside, and they will mistake it for being God. It's a deceptive feeling! It also says that idolatry will be on earth right up until the messiah comes. Clearly, the messiah isn't here, so idolatry must still exist.

Given your christian family members are not Jewish, they must be reminded that the bible was written to a group of people with a different understanding of God. Their religion is regarded as idolatry by the very people who wrote the book, and they ARE in fact getting that fuzzy, warm feeling about their practice (speaking in tongues), exactly as the book predicts.

If the bible is true (and your christian family will insist that it is), then how can they be so sure that they're not the idolaters that the book is describing?

Yeah, from he Jewish perspective, Jesus is just a false adhoc addition to the OT god. I think they would kind of go nuts if that was presented to them. Laugh out load

I point it out to Christians who evangelize to me all the time Big Grin

They NEVER take it well. But they can also never make a solid argument against it either. They just revert back to their "JESUS IS LORD" campaign, and usually drop the subject with me and move on to greener pastures.
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24-09-2015, 07:43 AM
RE: Debating creationist.
Pff speaking in tongues is easy. Heck when I was a kid I wrote some of my own (usually Cipher) languages just to mess with people or pass secret messages xD

Ignorance is not to be ignored.

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