Debating creationist.
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24-09-2015, 10:37 AM
RE: Debating creationist.
(24-09-2015 09:11 AM)Commonsensei Wrote:  


Huh. Interesting effect on the brain. Definitely NOT proof of a god intervening in the process (not proof against that either, not proof either way).

[snark]This DOES prove that speaking in tongues is a sign that your brain's stopped working![/snark]

All in all, perfectly consistent with a free-flowing unscripted chant. Not at all surprised that the brain does something different than in more conventional prayer, when they have to put their prayers into actual language. After all, putting the prayer into words involves tasks associated with the language center of the brain, and that's the part that didn't light up with speaking in tongues. I wonder what the brain scans would look like compared to, say, baby babble or meditation mantras.
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24-09-2015, 10:46 AM
RE: Debating creationist.
(24-09-2015 07:38 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 07:20 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Because the claim is coming from bible-believing Christians, I might have a decent counterargument up my sleeve which comes from the Jewish perspective. I can't give you citations in the bible right now because I don't immediately have the free time to dig through my bible. If you think this sort of argument will resonate with them, then I'll find you the citations.

Basically, the "OT" was written by Jews, for Jews. In it, God is clearly defined and well understood by the Hebrews, and examples of idolatry are clearly spelled out. It says (somewhere in there) that idolatry will feel good, it will give people a fuzzy feeling inside, and they will mistake it for being God. It's a deceptive feeling! It also says that idolatry will be on earth right up until the messiah comes. Clearly, the messiah isn't here, so idolatry must still exist.

Given your christian family members are not Jewish, they must be reminded that the bible was written to a group of people with a different understanding of God. Their religion is regarded as idolatry by the very people who wrote the book, and they ARE in fact getting that fuzzy, warm feeling about their practice (speaking in tongues), exactly as the book predicts.

If the bible is true (and your christian family will insist that it is), then how can they be so sure that they're not the idolaters that the book is describing?

Yeah, from he Jewish perspective, Jesus is just a false adhoc addition to the OT god. I think they would kind of go nuts if that was presented to them. Laugh out load
So, what you're saying is, the New Testament is to the Old Testament as the Koran is to the Bible? Jesus is to Abraham as Mohammed is to Jesus? *That* will frost somebody's balls! 😈
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24-09-2015, 12:22 PM
RE: Debating creationist.
(24-09-2015 04:25 AM)Luke.furlong Wrote:  Got a question!
Clearly you guys would have encounted this ridiculous question
Every time I argue with my uncle and cousin, I always get the well how do you explain the Holy Spirit. He got baptised and now speaks in tongues which to me just sounds like his speaking jibberish, I know lots of atheist have been able to speak in tongues. Is this something they teach you in the church? Or could it have been his just youtubed it and listen to everyone else speaking it and copied.
You don't learn to speak in tongues in Church. You learn to speak in tongues at school or at home. English is one of those tongues that I have learned at school.
But sometimes a person who never studied Spanish suddenly can start to teach Gospel in Spanish to Spanish speaking audience. It is a miracle.
I remember once I could understand long prayer in Spanish and I didn't study Spanish. So, Spirit translated everything to me. That is why I have my personal testimony of the gift of tongues and of the gift of translation of tongues.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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24-09-2015, 12:28 PM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2015 12:34 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Debating creationist.
(24-09-2015 04:25 AM)Luke.furlong Wrote:  .... I always get the well how do you explain the Holy Spirit.

Easy, it is called DELUSION. Yes

Lets recap how this happens...

Faith - the belief in something without evidence.

Delusion: an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder. A belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.

Religion - The embracement of delusion.

Lets review video evidence of the ridiculousness of people purporting to be under the influence of the holy spirit....








"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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24-09-2015, 01:04 PM
RE: Debating creationist.
I have had occasion to speak in tongues lately.

I was testing ( just for the heck of it) how much of what my dogs understand is actual words and how much is intonation and body language.

So I have been happily babbling along, occasionally inserting a word they knew to see if they would pick it out.

Also, I was giving nonsense commands.

Speaking in tongues is easy, made me feel like a baby again, haha! Babies speak in tongues all the time.

BTW., turns out my dogs only know a handful of actual words but respond to many more things based on intonation and body language.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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24-09-2015, 01:56 PM
RE: Debating creationist.
(24-09-2015 04:25 AM)Luke.furlong Wrote:  Got a question!
Clearly you guys would have encounted this ridiculous question
Every time I argue with my uncle and cousin, I always get the well how do you explain the Holy Spirit. He got baptised and now speaks in tongues which to me just sounds like his speaking jibberish, I know lots of atheist have been able to speak in tongues. Is this something they teach you in the church? Or could it have been his just youtubed it and listen to everyone else speaking it and copied.

Per the Bible, speaking in tongues has to be an actual discernible language (English, Hebrew, Japanese, Russian, etc) and can never be done without an interpreter. If anything besides this happens, it's people faking it, hallucinating, becoming over emotional, etc. It is not of God. It is not speaking in tongues.

1Cor. 14:9-11
9 So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are, perhaps, a great many kinds of languages in the world, and no kind is without meaning. 11 If then I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be to the one who speaks a barbarian, and the one who speaks will be a barbarian to me.

1Cor. 14:27-28
27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; 28 but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.


I promise you they have never spoken another discernible language let alone have an interpreter to translate it.

All that jibberish is just jibberish and an affront to Christianity. It's a horrific gimmick to steal money from hurting, desperate people.

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24-09-2015, 01:57 PM
RE: Debating creationist.
So, based on my earlier reply, ask him which language he spoke and who his interpreter was.

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24-09-2015, 02:06 PM
RE: Debating creationist.
(24-09-2015 10:46 AM)jabeady Wrote:  
(24-09-2015 07:38 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  Yeah, from he Jewish perspective, Jesus is just a false adhoc addition to the OT god. I think they would kind of go nuts if that was presented to them. Laugh out load
So, what you're saying is, the New Testament is to the Old Testament as the Koran is to the Bible? Jesus is to Abraham as Mohammed is to Jesus? *That* will frost somebody's balls!

It frosts their balls. It frosts them, and it gives me giggles when it does. I only play with the Christians who threaten me or the people I care about with hell and eternal damnation, though. -Which is surprisingly often.
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24-09-2015, 02:12 PM
RE: Debating creationist.
"Speaking in tongues" is about as realistic as speaking in Klingon.

Just without the nifty uniforms and bad makeup job.....

.....

Thinking about it - if you showed up at ComciCon - and started "speaking in tongues" - nobody would even notice...

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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24-09-2015, 02:15 PM
RE: Debating creationist.
(24-09-2015 12:22 PM)Alla Wrote:  But sometimes a person who never studied Spanish suddenly can start to teach Gospel in Spanish to Spanish speaking audience. It is a miracle.
I remember once I could understand long prayer in Spanish and I didn't study Spanish. So, Spirit translated everything to me. That is why I have my personal testimony of the gift of tongues and of the gift of translation of tongues.

BS BS BS, this has NEVER happened, EVER.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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