Debunking Christianity using the Bible
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14-10-2010, 05:36 PM
Debunking Christianity using the Bible
So, I am (very slowly) trying to read through the Bible, between school work and classes, and I am not far into it. So if any of my following comments are incorrect/ignorant, will somebody please correct me?

Okay, so I'm reading, and I get to a passage that, in my opinion, completely debunks Christianity. Here it is:

Deuteronomy 13.1-3,5: "Prophets or interpreters of dreams may promise a miracle or a wonder, in order to lead you to worship and serve gods that you have not worship[p]ed before. Even if what they promise comes true, do not pay any attention to them. The Lord your God is using them to test you, to see if you love the Lord with all your heart. [...] But put to death any interpreters of dreams or prophets that tell you to rebel against the Lord [...] Such people are evil and are trying to lead you away from the life that the Lord has commanded you to live. They must be put to death, in order to rid yourselves of this evil."

I'm not even going to quote the remainder of the chapter, which just goes on to encourage the stoning and mass killing of anybody who tries to convert the people. Anyways, when I read this, two thoughts immediately occurred to me: 1. that the Jews were following these instructions to a "t" when they crucified Jesus, and 2. that most Christians must not ever read the Old Testament Undecided

My reasoning is this (and please correct me if I get the myth wrong): many Christians argue that Jesus basically tells people to not follow the old ways of living anymore... thus, "Such people are evil and are trying to lead you away from the life that the Lord has commanded you to live." So, hypothetically, either Jesus is an evil prophet described here, leading people away from the original path that their god laid out for them; or, he is actually the (hypothetical) son of god/god in a human form, in which case he wouldn't be telling people to ignore god's commandments about living. In the first case, Christians have no premise for worshipping Jesus; in the second, they have no premise for ignoring most of the laws of the Old Testament... Either way, they have no premise for their religion.

I have no idea if that made any sense at all. Thoughts? Arguments? etc?

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
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14-10-2010, 07:25 PM
RE: Debunking Christianity using the Bible
(14-10-2010 05:36 PM)SecularStudent Wrote:  My reasoning is this (and please correct me if I get the myth wrong): many Christians argue that Jesus basically tells people to not follow the old ways of living anymore... thus, "Such people are evil and are trying to lead you away from the life that the Lord has commanded you to live." So, hypothetically, either Jesus is an evil prophet described here, leading people away from the original path that their god laid out for them; or, he is actually the (hypothetical) son of god/god in a human form, in which case he wouldn't be telling people to ignore god's commandments about living. In the first case, Christians have no premise for worshipping Jesus; in the second, they have no premise for ignoring most of the laws of the Old Testament... Either way, they have no premise for their religion.

As far as I can tell your argument makes sense. In fact I plan on using
it often from now on while debating Christians. Thank you. I plan on
purchasing the Old Testament in the near future.

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14-10-2010, 07:48 PM
 
RE: Debunking Christianity using the Bible
(14-10-2010 05:36 PM)SecularStudent Wrote:  many Christians argue that Jesus basically tells people to not follow the old ways of living anymore... thus, "Such people are evil and are trying to lead you away from the life that the Lord has commanded you to live." So, hypothetically, either Jesus is an evil prophet described here, leading people away from the original path that their god laid out for them; or, he is actually the (hypothetical) son of god/god in a human form, in which case he wouldn't be telling people to ignore god's commandments about living. In the first case, Christians have no premise for worshipping Jesus; in the second, they have no premise for ignoring most of the laws of the Old Testament... Either way, they have no premise for their religion.

I have no idea if that made any sense at all. Thoughts? Arguments? etc?

As a former theology buff, I get what you're saying, but I think most christians believe that Jesus didn't come to do away with the old testament. They would probably say that he came to earth to transform the law beyond "good" behavior into true charity. (The new testament says that Jesus came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it, for example.)

Therefore, they would say that Jesus is the perfect representation of what god wanted all along. Mankind was just too hard-headed to get it.

For example, a person can refrain from adultery, but christians believe Jesus said that even lust without action is equivalent to adultery. Resting on the sabbath, Jesus taught is less important than doing good deeds on Saturdays. You get the point.

That said, I think you're on to something in the last paragraph. I like it.
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14-10-2010, 08:46 PM
 
RE: Debunking Christianity using the Bible
(14-10-2010 05:36 PM)SecularStudent Wrote:  So, I am (very slowly) trying to read through the Bible, between school work and classes, and I am not far into it. So if any of my following comments are incorrect/ignorant, will somebody please correct me?

Okay, so I'm reading, and I get to a passage that, in my opinion, completely debunks Christianity. Here it is:

Deuteronomy 13.1-3,5: "Prophets or interpreters of dreams may promise a miracle or a wonder, in order to lead you to worship and serve gods that you have not worship[p]ed before. Even if what they promise comes true, do not pay any attention to them. The Lord your God is using them to test you, to see if you love the Lord with all your heart. [...] But put to death any interpreters of dreams or prophets that tell you to rebel against the Lord [...] Such people are evil and are trying to lead you away from the life that the Lord has commanded you to live. They must be put to death, in order to rid yourselves of this evil."
This is from Biblegateway.com. I find this to be one of the all around best sites on the net for passage look up's. And especially because, they very often have Apologist commentary attached to various scriptures.
As in this case, so as to better decipher what appears to be indecipherable.

LINK)
Enticers to idolatry to be put to death.

Moses had cautioned against the peril that might arise from the Canaanites. Here he cautions against the rise of idolatry among themselves. It is needful for us to be well acquainted with the truths and precepts of the Bible; for we may expect to be proved by temptations of evil under the appearance of good, of error in the guise of truth; nor can any thing rightly oppose such temptations, but the plain, express testimony of God's word to the contrary. And it would be a proof of

sincere affection for God, that, notwithstanding specious pretences, they should not be wrought upon the forsake God, and follow other gods to serve them. (De 13:6-11)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Many Christians will disavow the relevance of the OT.They claim it is no longer relevant because when Jesus came and died, he fulfilled the law. This is wholly untrue, as even Jesus said. But it's convenient to disavow 39 Books, when there's so much that conflicts with accepting that Jesus was god incarnate and as such was to represent of himself, and that power love, peace and tolerance. All of which is not in evidence in the OT.
I've found Christians dismissive attitudes to be true when confronting them with the abundant number of contradictions, errant passages that tend to contradict one another, and outright lies. (I'm still waiting for the Unicorn fossil discovery to be broadcast as a Autumn Special on Discovery channel). Followed shortly thereafter by Satyr skeletons. Namely because I'm curious as to how much the ivory from those fossilized horns would bring, on eBay.

Also, I think it's important to remember when coming upon passages that simply don't make sense, that the Bible is a Canonized version arrived at through the election of three different and yet major councils, as to form and content of the chapters, verse, passages contained therein.
(The Councils: The Council of Laodicea (A.D. 363),The Council of Carthage (A.D. 397), The Council of Hippo (419 A.D.) )

I find this particularly fascinating, considering Christians will often defend the entire Bible, front to back, as "god's inspired word". This is fascinating because either those people are ignorant of the Canonization process that took place, or they're rationalizing the irrational that is afforded after that knowledge comes to light, in thinking god is still the sole/soul responsible author of all 66 Books. Rather, the councils arrived at their election as to what, among all things considered, were worthy of inclusion in what was to become the "Holy Bible". Ergo, insisting that final product remains as "god's word", is to accept that while god gave dictation, sinful men deemed themselves qualified to be his editors in chief.

There are two very good websites that make no apologies for the content of the Bible as an instrument of perversity that not only describes a tyrant in heaven, and a supreme sadist, but also affords evidence that benevolence is a misnomer, when referring to the Deity the Bible is suppose to inspire one to worship, honor in all things, and aspire to live with for eternity once the flesh is cast aside.

http://www.evilbible.com < Owned by an atheist, that will give you much to consider about not only the Bible, but the Torah.

And The Dark Bible.
< Very good, but in no wise informative as is evilbible.

Continued patience and success, in your pursuit. Shy
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14-10-2010, 09:00 PM
RE: Debunking Christianity using the Bible
skeptics annotated bible is also very good.
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