Debunking the KCA
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15-01-2012, 01:07 PM
Debunking the KCA
I've been having regular arguments with a theist about the Kalam Cosmological Argument and how it is inherently flawed and not logical. I found this video to be an exceptional resource:

http://bit.ly/zEXWa4

I honestly had never thought in depth about the KCA and I admit it almost stumped me but the research in theoretical physics that this video highlights just destroy the primitive argument.

Now I have to deal with his idea of dualism and the "non-material" nature of the mind. I might have to injure his brain in order to show him how he's wrong. Tongue

In science, "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

--Stephen Jay Gould
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15-01-2012, 01:19 PM
RE: Debunking the KCA
(15-01-2012 01:07 PM)scientician Wrote:  I've been having regular arguments with a theist about the Kalam Cosmological Argument and how it is inherently flawed and not logical. I found this video to be an exceptional resource:

http://bit.ly/zEXWa4

I honestly had never thought in depth about the KCA and I admit it almost stumped me but the research in theoretical physics that this video highlights just destroy the primitive argument.

Now I have to deal with his idea of dualism and the "non-material" nature of the mind. I might have to injure his brain in order to show him how he's wrong. Tongue

Brain injury is an excellent idea. Cool However, studies of brain injury effects, and fMRI studies of the brain are excellent arguments against dualism.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-01-2012, 01:21 PM
RE: Debunking the KCA
(15-01-2012 01:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  Brain injury is an excellent idea. Cool However, studies of brain injury effects, and fMRI studies of the brain are excellent arguments against dualism.

Precisely! And Dualism needs to be true in order for the idea of a non-material mind as the creator of the universe to be plausible and there is such good evidence against dualism.

In science, "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

--Stephen Jay Gould
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15-01-2012, 01:47 PM
RE: Debunking the KCA
(15-01-2012 01:07 PM)scientician Wrote:  I've been having regular arguments with a theist about the Kalam Cosmological Argument and how it is inherently flawed and not logical. I found this video to be an exceptional resource: http://bit.ly/zEXWa4

Just when I thought I was beginning to lose my warm and fuzzy disposition... you provide me with my little Feynman fix.

Thank you Scientician, for my Sunday smile. Big Grin

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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15-01-2012, 02:02 PM
RE: Debunking the KCA
(15-01-2012 01:47 PM)kim Wrote:  Just when I thought I was beginning to lose my warm and fuzzy disposition... you provide me with my little Feynman fix.

Thank you Scientician, for my Sunday smile. Big Grin

You're quite welcome! I'm glad I could help. Big Grin My Sunday smile usually comes the post-rapture-like silence of the neighbourhood at church.

In science, "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

--Stephen Jay Gould
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15-01-2012, 02:43 PM
RE: Debunking the KCA
ive suffered through Craig's cosmological argument and
it just sounds like pseudo philosophy and arguments from ignorance
"we dont know what done it, so it must've been god"
is what it boils down to.
Also has no relevence towards proving a deity or christianity specifically.
and i dont know why on earth would he think it would, atheists arent atheists because
they dont know what was there before the big bang, at least for me
the claims of religion or either false or unfalsifiable and illogical.

"Yeah, good idea. Make them buy your invisible apple. Insist that they do. Market it properly and don't stop until they pay for it." -Malleus
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15-01-2012, 02:47 PM
RE: Debunking the KCA
The premise of this thread is wrong.
Bill Craig says so.




It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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15-01-2012, 02:55 PM
RE: Debunking the KCA
well then what created god?

"Yeah, good idea. Make them buy your invisible apple. Insist that they do. Market it properly and don't stop until they pay for it." -Malleus
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15-01-2012, 02:58 PM
RE: Debunking the KCA
(15-01-2012 02:55 PM)Jackrabbit Wrote:  well then what created god?

By definition, God has no creator, duh.
Tongue

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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15-01-2012, 02:59 PM
RE: Debunking the KCA
(15-01-2012 02:55 PM)Jackrabbit Wrote:  well then what created god?

God has no creator because god created spacetime with the universe and therefore there is no "before" god and it's effectively a moot point. That's how they avoid that question!

In science, "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

--Stephen Jay Gould
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