Declining Empathy and Atheism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
15-01-2015, 08:40 AM
RE: Declining Empathy and Atheism
(15-01-2015 07:38 AM)thesummerqueen Wrote:  
(15-01-2015 07:30 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Just less empathy I guess. It doesn't seem to indicate growing crime rates, or violence, or anything else really. It would likely mean less sense of communal togetherness, compassionate concern for the lives of others, less of a desire to be involved in such things.

Do you actually have numbers on this, or is this just your anecdotal assumption?

While there does appear to be a decline in empathy (the study in the OP), this hasn't corresponded to growing crime rates, or violence (plenty of stats readily available online showing this).

And the rest of the post is just stating a tautology, that a lack of empathy, corresponds to a lack of empathy.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2015, 08:41 AM
RE: Declining Empathy and Atheism
(15-01-2015 08:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  The world they project, call into observance, that they share with others, is consciously stripped of all feeling, made into seemingly magnificent set of churning gears, but with no heart or soul.

Damn, I did not realize I was part of a such a heartless demographic. I guess if I just ticked a different box in a bogus poll I would have gotten a soul and been considered a worthy human being. I will start condemning folks to hell right away that do not fit my new found god's plan - whew, am I back on the good team TOMASIA - PUTZ!

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Timber1025's post
15-01-2015, 08:47 AM
RE: Declining Empathy and Atheism
(15-01-2015 08:40 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-01-2015 07:38 AM)thesummerqueen Wrote:  Do you actually have numbers on this, or is this just your anecdotal assumption?

While there does appear to be a decline in empathy (the study in the OP), this hasn't corresponded to growing crime rates, or violence (plenty of stats readily available online showing this).

And the rest of the post is just stating a tautology, that a lack of empathy, corresponds to a lack of empathy.

You're talking about a self-report study from college kids.

Come back when it takes a greater slice out of the mass of humanity and includes some double-blind experiments.

In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer.
Albert Camus
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like thesummerqueen's post
15-01-2015, 08:59 AM
RE: Declining Empathy and Atheism
(15-01-2015 08:30 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Yeah we get that you like to make assumptions about people you don't know without any hard data. Let's see that data for all your unsupported opinions. How exactly do you know what you claim to know, or presume to know. How do you determine what is "average empathy" ? What does that even mean ?

Well, I posted several studies, used in support of my views. And my perspective has a lot more going for it, than anything ever offered by atheists, regarding the harms of religion, or even why people are religious in the first place. I used several studies to make the case. And it does seem to have some explanatory power, in regards to the attraction of systemizing perspectives among unbelievers.

But I don't expect anyone to take is a gospel, or with certainty of a scientific theory. But at least as a strong hypothesis, based on personal observations, as well as several studies in support of it.

If you can find an alternative explanation, which you think offers a greater explanatory capacity for the variety of things I mentioned, than I'm all ears, because that's all I'm looking for.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2015, 09:08 AM
RE: Declining Empathy and Atheism
(15-01-2015 07:30 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
It would likely mean less sense of communal togetherness, compassionate concern for the lives of others, less of a desire to be involved in such things.
...

Here, you demonstrate a reasonable understanding of empathy.

(15-01-2015 07:30 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
Those of us who desire just a slight tinge of communication, to share our views and perspectives with others, have places like this and other online outlets, with a sense of friendship void of all the messy stuff that comes with real human relationships, with no one to peer into our inner lives, or see anything beyond the fabricated selves we easily display here.
...

Yup. With you all the way, there, bro. Thumbsup Sounds perfect. But...

(15-01-2015 07:30 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
It's a great time to be less empathetic in my view. No moment has ever been more accommodating.

... here you seem to be equating empathy with privacy.

Personal contact is not a pre-requisite for empathy (as TTA's Personal Issues and Support section demonstrates (as mentioned by Dom))

(15-01-2015 08:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
I don't recall calling all atheists autistic, psychopaths, immoral deviants, or anything of the sort.
...

Actually, that sounds like a compliment to me. Although, 'sociopath' would be a kinder word.

(15-01-2015 08:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
In fact my post lack any real moral judgement. People who are less empathetic than average or with diminished sense of it, for the most part they tend to still be upright citizens, obey the laws, respects each others rights, pay taxes, etc...My post doesn't say much of anything about the actual behavior of atheists, but I do think it sheds light on a certain peculiarity of perspectives, one that we might find an abundance of among unbeliever types, but found only rarely among believers.
...

Well, maybe, but you were identifying correlation that implied... Dodgy

But, yeah, fair enough, let's call it judgement but not condemnation. I'll give you that.

(15-01-2015 08:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
Atheists tend to focus of systemizing perspectives, seem to be disproportionately interested in views, and subjects that appease this particular frame of looking at the world. A world they imagine is best accommodated for reason, and rational thinking. One they can participate and observe, from the outside, as objective viewers. Even their proposed moral philosophies, and such are written like one might imagine an engineering text book would be written, even though such philosophies are concerned with our relationship with others.
...

I'll happily plead guilty to being one of those people.

But... please consider the possibility that you have it in reverse i.e. that atheism does not necessarily lead to 'systemic-thinking' but reason, systemic-thinking etc. leads to or confirms atheism.

"Sire, je n'ai pas eu besoin de cette hypothèse."

(15-01-2015 08:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
The world they project, call into observance, that they share with others, is consciously stripped of all feeling, made into seemingly magnificent set of churning gears, but with no heart or soul. The world of religions, is too touchy feely, to emotionally composed and charged for them to see anything desirable about it. Too fluffy to be even remotely attractive.
...

Again... correlation, perhaps, but not causality.

It's not that religion is too emotional / empathetic (which are not synonymous, btw) it's that faith-based, myth-based reasoning is unnecessary when one has accepted that are better ways to discover / rationalise what is true.

(15-01-2015 08:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
It's not as if the decline of churches, the loss of people in the pews, is churning out godless assemblies to take it's place. It's not as if one is abandoning the community of the church, for another community of unbelievers, but rather is a departure from community all together (though there are outliers of course).
...

I think you are just plain wrong, here.

A community of football supporters is secular (with the obvious exception of Celtic and Rangers and a few others); a business community is typically secular; most interactions one has on a daily basis with most people one meets has no direct link with deities.

Example: My office in KL is a workforce entirely consisting of people (all female, to a man) who would identify, when asked, with a religion. Mainly, but not entirely Islam. Only one actually practices it. i.e. the praying 5 times per day and in her case, as with the vast majority of christians that I know, she essentially equates all that stuff with being a 'nice person'.

For the others, at home, at the gym, in their various social groups, religion does not come into it... at all.

Mocktail Muslims ©, Homemade Hinduism, Tradition only Taoism, Cafeteria Christianity. Religion as a label / comfort factor ... not as a way of life.

What I do see, to support your point, is a split between introverts and extroverts. The latter being those who desire more virtual and non-virtual community.

(15-01-2015 08:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
In theory atheism is just a lack of belief in God, in practice it tends to come with a package deal, that is just as appealing.
...

In theory AND in practice.

(15-01-2015 08:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
Again this isn't to say that atheists are any less than theists, but there does seems to be a great deal of differences, beyond just one party believing in God, and that other just lacking this one thing. At the end of the day they are just two people with seemingly differing aesthetics, not one any better than the other.

Again, I can't agree.

Two people with completely different epistemologies.

If history has taught us nothing else, we should have learned that faith/myth-based thinking (which to any practical extent is totalitarian, by definition) leads to a lot of dead people. It is only held in check by those that rise above that.

Cool

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like DLJ's post
15-01-2015, 09:10 AM
RE: Declining Empathy and Atheism
(15-01-2015 08:47 AM)thesummerqueen Wrote:  You're talking about a self-report study from college kids.

Come back when it takes a greater slice out of the mass of humanity and includes some double-blind experiments.


Well, there are several studies I used in support of my views.

I think the study of high-functioning autistic is good one here as well. That the attractiveness of atheism, its appeal to such groups, seems to be the same for many atheists in general, particularly the types you find in abundance in places such as this.

Do you think this is not the case?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2015, 09:18 AM
RE: Declining Empathy and Atheism
You picked a bunch of things that you thought *served* your point. You didn't actually come up with studies that even remotely proved your point - in conjunction with each other or otherwise.

In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer.
Albert Camus
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2015, 09:21 AM
RE: Declining Empathy and Atheism
Of coure there are all those studies regarding entire nations with high secular populations (Scandanavian countries, Japan) that are by far much more altruistic and less violent than those countries that are highly religious (Middle East, USA) so there’s that.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 10 users Like Full Circle's post
15-01-2015, 03:31 PM
RE: Declining Empathy and Atheism
(15-01-2015 09:10 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Well, there are several studies I used in support of my views.

I think the study of high-functioning autistic is good one here as well. That the attractiveness of atheism, its appeal to such groups, seems to be the same for many atheists in general, particularly the types you find in abundance in places such as this.

Do you think this is not the case?

Nice try - you want to imply that atheism 'appeals' to people and that's why they 'follow the doctrine' - i.e. it's the same tired old pretense that atheism is a religion and therefore on an equal footing to Christianity.

Unlike your super unsexy and boring crappy religion which would otherwise die if you didn't spend time brainwashing kids and promoting it with extremely dodgy techniques designed to prey on weaker members of society, we don't need to *appeal* to anyone.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-01-2015, 06:22 PM
RE: Declining Empathy and Atheism
(15-01-2015 08:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...I do think it sheds light on a certain peculiarity of perspectives, one that we might find an abundance of among unbeliever types, but found only rarely among believers.
So you didn't say it, but showed where it's the case? Not sure how that's different.

(15-01-2015 08:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ..even though such philosophies are concerned with our relationship with others.
Not sure what you mean there. I hope I'm wrong but it sounds like we shouldn't care about relationships with others. I just hope I'm reading that wrong.

(15-01-2015 08:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...The world of religions, is too touchy feely, to emotionally composed and charged for them to see anything desirable about it. Too fluffy to be even remotely attractive.
Just because you can explain it in a sterile manner doesn't mean it is itself sterile. Again, it sounds like we're trying to avoid caring. Not true.

(15-01-2015 08:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  In theory atheism is just a lack of belief in God, in practice it tends to come with a package deal, that is just as appealing.
Pretty much, that's it. There are a lot of things I don't agree with my fellow atheists on. If there's a package deal, no one told me about it.

If you think that atheists are somehow detaching themselves from emotions, then you really don't know atheists at all. I hope I'm wrong about that.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Clockwork's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: