Declining Empathy and Atheism

[DLJ]

(16-01-2015 11:43 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
The rich and prosperous have been shown to have less of a sense of empathy than the poor, yet they commit fewer crimes, and maintain higher standards of living.

Again... citation needed. Shown where?

Are you talking about Les Misérables?

[Tomasia]

(16-01-2015 11:50 PM)DLJ Wrote:  

(16-01-2015 11:43 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  ...
The rich and prosperous have been shown to have less of a sense of empathy than the poor, yet they commit fewer crimes, and maintain higher standards of living.

Again... citation needed. Shown where?

Are you talking about Les Misérables?

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/201...neral&_r=1

Sorry I was on my mobile, and was having trouble posting the link.

[DLJ]

(17-01-2015 12:09 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  

(16-01-2015 11:50 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Again... citation needed. Shown where?

Are you talking about Les Misérables?

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/201...neral&_r=1

Sorry I was on my mobile, and was having trouble posting the link.

So the article is not really saying that rich people have less empathy... it's saying they have less empathy towards the poor. It's relative. And also Darwinian.

The solution, they seem to conclude, would be more personal contact.

Here's an idea... let's pass a law that decrees that rich people can only marry poor people.

That should sort it all out.

[AlephBet]

(14-01-2015 11:11 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  There seems to be an overall decline in empathy among society as whole. There are several studies indicating this:

Quote:"We found the biggest drop in empathy after the year 2000," said Sara Konrath, a researcher at the U-M Institute for Social Research. "College kids today are about 40 percent lower in empathy than their counterparts of 20 or 30 years ago, as measured by standard tests of this personality trait.""

http://ns.umich.edu/new/releases/7724

Another study suggests this decline is more pronounced between believers and unbelievers, often in the double digit range:

Quote:"The survey by a pollster at the University of Lethbridge in Alberta, Canada, found that adults who profess a belief in God are significantly more likely than atheists to say that forgiveness, patience, generosity and a concern for others are "very important." In fact, the poll found that on 11 of 12 values, there was a double-digit gap between theists and atheists, with theists more likely to label each value "very important."

http://www.bpnews.net/26675

The demographics of atheism also shows that males are more attracted to atheism than females, as well as high-functioning autistics.

Quote:http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2...LaVbFtLwfk

http://www.scienceandreligiontoday.com/2...nt-page-1/

Both of these parties show less empathetic responses:

Quote:"Both sexes exhibited empathy-related activation in pain-related brain areas (fronto-insular and anterior cingulate cortices) towards fair players. However, these empathy-related responses were significantly reduced in males when observing an unfair person receiving pain."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2636868/

In regards to those on the austic-spectrum:

Quote:"[Autistic people] struggle with empathy just like zero negatives but it seems to be for very different reasons. I’m arguing that their low empathy is a result of a particular cognitive style, which is attentive to details and patterns or rules, which in shorthand, I call systemizing.

If we think about the autism spectrum as involving a very strong drive to systemize, that can have very positive consequences for the individual and for society. The downside is that when you try to systemize certain parts of the world like people and emotions, those sorts of phenomena are less lawful and harder to systemize. That can lead to having low empathy, almost like a byproduct of strong systemizing."

http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/30/mi...e-of-evil/

While the evidence doesn't suggest that atheism leads to a lack of empathy. It does seem to strongly suggest that those with a declined sense of empathy are attracted to atheism, and perhaps even a driving force for the growing population of unbelievers as a whole.

Another aspects that seems to be supportive of this, is the attraction to strong systemizing among many unbelievers, the appeals to the hard sciences, and methodologies, and perspectives of the world, that are highly dependent on such systemizing aspects, and a derogatory perspective on non-systemizing perspectives, and observations.

The less empathetic we are, whether because of genetic predispositions, or social and environmental factors, the more we seem to be attracted to systematic observations, and atheism. The decline in empathy, and growth of unbelievers is unlikely to be just coincidental, but seems to be a significant contributor to disbelief. This position seems to be strongly supported by a number of studies, several of which I've cited here.

You are defining studies into pathos. Pathos, like all opposites, has two sides. Empathy and Sympathy are mirrored (Strong Force in Nature, Proton and Neutron). One is positive and one neutral (zero). On the other side of these, you have another mirror. Like courage:fear, so Pathos is to apathy. Lacking faith is lacking pathos, as demonstrated by the replies to me in the future of this post. If your heart is already engaging your rage, you lack true positive pathos.

When I say lacking, I am only referring to the choice to love some, but not others apart from your own self. The Self is in us all. Ego can be overcome in place of love. Love recognizes others as equal by potential, only seeking to give from the heart. Believers who are true show this. God is one of the others to be loved.

Faith is insight, or sight within. As Aristotle told us, there is a clear path to Pathos. It requires catharsis, or the cleansing of the mind. This requires dissolution, which is the state of mind for those who choose to run from faith (determining choice to give by will). To embrace the adversary (Yahweh) is judgment (EGO of Adam). To overcome Yahweh (Ego) is to do as Jesus did to become Christ (Humble / Love). Satan is the accuser (Conscience) in the story of Adam. We are ALL Adam.

If you are looking for proof of God, he demonstrates by always giving; always showing the positive side of negative. He is the neutral in the middle, bringing us to the positive by the strong force (Strong House). Aleph Bet is the word Father in Hebrew. It means Strong House. Name a stronger house than love. None. This is proof of his goodness and truth of his existence as you, us, we and all. He is the Self in us, guiding us home.

Home is where the heart desires to be. Unity.

[gofish!]

(17-01-2015 07:12 AM)AlephBet Wrote:  

(14-01-2015 11:11 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  There seems to be an overall decline in empathy among society as whole. There are several studies indicating this:


Another study suggests this decline is more pronounced between believers and unbelievers, often in the double digit range:


The demographics of atheism also shows that males are more attracted to atheism than females, as well as high-functioning autistics.


Both of these parties show less empathetic responses:


In regards to those on the austic-spectrum:


While the evidence doesn't suggest that atheism leads to a lack of empathy. It does seem to strongly suggest that those with a declined sense of empathy are attracted to atheism, and perhaps even a driving force for the growing population of unbelievers as a whole.

Another aspects that seems to be supportive of this, is the attraction to strong systemizing among many unbelievers, the appeals to the hard sciences, and methodologies, and perspectives of the world, that are highly dependent on such systemizing aspects, and a derogatory perspective on non-systemizing perspectives, and observations.

The less empathetic we are, whether because of genetic predispositions, or social and environmental factors, the more we seem to be attracted to systematic observations, and atheism. The decline in empathy, and growth of unbelievers is unlikely to be just coincidental, but seems to be a significant contributor to disbelief. This position seems to be strongly supported by a number of studies, several of which I've cited here.

You are defining studies into pathos. Pathos, like all opposites, has two sides. Empathy and Sympathy are mirrored (Strong Force in Nature, Proton and Neutron). One is positive and one neutral (zero). On the other side of these, you have another mirror. Like courage:fear, so Pathos is to apathy. Lacking faith is lacking pathos, as demonstrated by the replies to me in the future of this post. If your heart is already engaging your rage, you lack true positive pathos.

When I say lacking, I am only referring to the choice to love some, but not others apart from your own self. The Self is in us all. Ego can be overcome in place of love. Love recognizes others as equal by potential, only seeking to give from the heart. Believers who are true show this. God is one of the others to be loved.

Faith is insight, or sight within. As Aristotle told us, there is a clear path to Pathos. It requires catharsis, or the cleansing of the mind. This requires dissolution, which is the state of mind for those who choose to run from faith (determining choice to give by will). To embrace the adversary (Yahweh) is judgment (EGO of Adam). To overcome Yahweh (Ego) is to do as Jesus did to become Christ (Humble / Love). Satan is the accuser (Conscience) in the story of Adam. We are ALL Adam.

If you are looking for proof of God, he demonstrates by always giving; always showing the positive side of negative. He is the neutral in the middle, bringing us to the positive by the strong force (Strong House). Aleph Bet is the word Father in Hebrew. It means Strong House. Name a stronger house than love. None. This is proof of his goodness and truth of his existence as you, us, we and all. He is the Self in us, guiding us home.

Home is where the heart desires to be. Unity.

[Bucky Ball]

(17-01-2015 07:12 AM)AlephBet Wrote:  You are defining studies into pathos.

The cat is prancing out of the shoe store too.

(17-01-2015 07:12 AM)AlephBet Wrote:  Pathos, like all opposites, has two sides.

Brilliant. Wait. What ?

(17-01-2015 07:12 AM)AlephBet Wrote:  Empathy and Sympathy are mirrored (Strong Force in Nature, Proton and Neutron). One is positive and one neutral (zero).

If speaking of an opposite to a proton, the "opposite" would be an electron.

(17-01-2015 07:12 AM)AlephBet Wrote:  On the other side of these, you have another mirror. Like courage:fear, so Pathos is to apathy. Lacking faith is lacking pathos, as demonstrated by the replies to me in the future of this post. If your heart is already engaging your rage, you lack true positive pathos.

Please tell us what random word generator you use.

(17-01-2015 07:12 AM)AlephBet Wrote:  When I say lacking, I am only referring to the choice to love some, but not others apart from your own self.

You REALLY should have used "Non-sequitur" as your name.

[Full Circle]

(16-01-2015 11:43 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  

(16-01-2015 10:12 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Anecdotal observations don’t hold a candle to what I mentioned earlier, secular nations have less crime rate and higher standards of living than highly religious ones.

Why would I debunk something that's true? I don't recall ever arguing that less empathy resulted in higher crime rates or lower standards of living.

The rich and prosperous have been shown to have less of a sense of empathy than the poor, yet they commit fewer crimes, and maintain higher standards of living.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/201...neral&_r=1

“...it should be noted that it is the most secular democracies on earth – such as Scandinavia – that donate the most money and supportive aid, per capita, to poorer nations (Center for Global Development, 2008). Furthermore, secular people are much more likely than religious people to vote for candidates and programs that redistribute wealth from the richer segments of society to the poorer segments through progressive taxation. Finally, Oliner and Oliner (1988) and Varese and Yaish (2000), in their studies of heroic altruism during the Holocaust, found that the more secular people were, the more likely they were to rescue and help persecuted Jews.

"If religion, prayer, or God-belief hindered criminal behavior, and secularity or atheism fostered lawlessness, we would expect to find the most religious nations having the lowest murder rates and the least religious nations having the highest. But we find just the opposite. Murder rates are actually lower in more secular nations and higher in more religious nations where belief in God is deep and widespread (Jensen 2006; Paul 2005; Fajnzylber et al. 2002; Fox and Levin 2000). And within America, the states with the highest murder rates tend to be highly religious, such as Louisiana and Alabama, but the states with the lowest murder rates tend to be among the least religious in the country, such as Vermont and Oregon (Ellison et al. 2003; Death Penalty Information Center, 2008). Furthermore, although there are some notable exceptions, rates of most violent crimes tend to be lower in the less religious states and higher in the most religious states (United States Census Bureau, 2006). Finally, of the top 50 safest cities in the world, nearly all are in relatively non-religious countries, and of the eight cities within the United States that make the safest-city list, nearly all are located in the least religious regions of the country (Mercer Survey, 2008).

I’d say that NOT killing your fellow human being shows much more empathy don’t you.

"As noted earlier, the most secular democracies in the world score very high on international indexes of happiness and well-being (Kamenev 2006) and they have among lowest violent crime and homicide rates (Paul 2005). But there’s more. A perusal of any recent United Nations World Development Report reveals that when it comes to such things as life expectancy, infant mortality, economic equality, economic competitiveness, health care, standard of living, and education, it is the most secular democracies on earth that fare the best, doing much better than the most religious nations in the world (Zuckerman 2008; Norris and Inglehart 2004; Bruce 2003). Consider women’s equality and women’s rights: women fare much better in more secular countries when compared with women in more religious countries and that women’s equality is strongest in the world’s most secular democracies (Ingelhart et al. 2003; Inglehart and Norris 2003). And a UNICEF (2007) report found that the least religious nations on earth – such as Sweden and Holland – are simultaneously the best countries for the care and well-being of children. Of the top ten best countries in the world within which to be a mother, all are highly secular nations; of the bottom worst 10, all are highly religious (Save the Children, 2008).

It is a fact that being in a secular society is better for women and children, I’d say that is being more empathetic.

In almost every facet of well-being secular countries care more for the fellow man than do religious ones, the results of multiple studies are there in black and white. It’s not even a question.

Source: Phil Zuckerman, PhD, University of Oregon 1998. He is currently an associate professor of sociology at Pitzer College. He is the author of Society Without God (NYU, 2008) and Invitation to the Sociology of Religion (Routledge, 2003), and editor of Atheism and Secularity (Praeger, forthcoming).

[gofish!]

^^^Oh dear looks like someone got their ass handed to them.

[true scotsman]

If there is a decline in empathy, I think it is most likely caused by the fact that the dominant ethical theories are all based on the morality of altruism and the basic principle that man should be selfless. But how can a selfless person have any interests, much less interests in the good of others?

[Dahlia]

When I became an atheist and determined there to be no master plan for the universe, I suddenly felt a huge responsibility - probably for the first time - to do everything I could to make this planet a better place. It changed the course of my life. Atheism and apathy do not go hand-in-hand.