Defining God.
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05-03-2013, 01:33 PM
RE: Defining God.
The universe cannot be infinitely large, I will explain why later. And infinities between integers are a creation of math, a human construct; concepts used to better understand and predict what we view as reality.
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05-03-2013, 01:43 PM
RE: Defining God.
(05-03-2013 01:26 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(05-03-2013 03:42 AM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  HJ throws infinities around like they're a real thing and not just a concept.




The universe can be infinitely large and there can be a multiverse which can contain an infinite number of daughter universes. The set of real numbers between 0 and 1 is infinitely large.

You are wrong to claim that infinties are just concepts.

If it was infinitely large then you would never get to one.
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05-03-2013, 02:33 PM
RE: Defining God.
(05-03-2013 01:33 PM)WeAreTheCosmos Wrote:  The universe cannot be infinitely large, I will explain why later. And infinities between integers are a creation of math, a human construct; concepts used to better understand and predict what we view as reality.

I look forward to seeing this explaination. I have heard from many cosmologists that it is possible that the universe is infinitely large. I'm not saying you are wrong or can't make the argument, you certainly can and there is nothing wrong with arguing against the prevailing veiw. It should be interesting.

Insults From Thinkingatheists forgiven 151
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05-03-2013, 03:04 PM
RE: Defining God.
Quote:For instance, say that a being came to our attention and claimed that it was god. Now our reaction might be to say that it needed to prove so. So it made a planet appear out right next to us in space without effecting our orbit. Would this be enough to say that this being was in fact a god? After all while extraordinary, this could just be a exceptionally powerful being. One that can make planets appear in space but not affect other planets around it. Such a being could do even greater things potentially and yet, with our only definitions of god being omnipotent, we might have a hard time drawing a line between a exceptionally powerful being and a non contradictory all-powerful being. We could keep demanding greater test but so long as it could pass them then we would still not know where we could draw that line between omnipotent and exceptional power.
Indeed. God knows this logical loophole and does not insist that people bow to Him because of His displays of power but because of His displays of love IMHO.
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05-03-2013, 03:20 PM
RE: Defining God.
(05-03-2013 03:04 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:For instance, say that a being came to our attention and claimed that it was god. Now our reaction might be to say that it needed to prove so. So it made a planet appear out right next to us in space without effecting our orbit. Would this be enough to say that this being was in fact a god? After all while extraordinary, this could just be a exceptionally powerful being. One that can make planets appear in space but not affect other planets around it. Such a being could do even greater things potentially and yet, with our only definitions of god being omnipotent, we might have a hard time drawing a line between a exceptionally powerful being and a non contradictory all-powerful being. We could keep demanding greater test but so long as it could pass them then we would still not know where we could draw that line between omnipotent and exceptional power.
Indeed. God knows this logical loophole and does not insist that people bow to Him because of His displays of power but because of His displays of love IMHO.
Displays of love? That is a joke, right? Your god, if it actually exists, has shown nothing but complete disregard for the human race. Don't even bother typing out some BS about sending it's only son down to us to die for our sins. That whole story is illogical and based on JFC's presumed immortality, no sacrifice at all.

Plagues, rape, genocide, starvation, cancer, pollution, birth defects, pedophiles in church robes, inquisitions, all done on your "god's" watch. Love my ass.
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05-03-2013, 03:31 PM
RE: Defining God.
Quote:Displays of love? That is a joke, right? Your god, if it actually exists, has shown nothing but complete disregard for the human race. Don't even bother typing out some BS about sending it's only son down to us to die for our sins. That whole story is illogical and based on JFC's presumed immortality, no sacrifice at all.

Plagues, rape, genocide, starvation, cancer, pollution, birth defects, pedophiles in church robes, inquisitions, all done on your "god's" watch. Love my ass.
Okay. I hear you, da8. What is love and how do you define it? What is your ontological derivation of love? Thanks.
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05-03-2013, 03:33 PM
RE: Defining God.
(05-03-2013 03:31 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Displays of love? That is a joke, right? Your god, if it actually exists, has shown nothing but complete disregard for the human race. Don't even bother typing out some BS about sending it's only son down to us to die for our sins. That whole story is illogical and based on JFC's presumed immortality, no sacrifice at all.

Plagues, rape, genocide, starvation, cancer, pollution, birth defects, pedophiles in church robes, inquisitions, all done on your "god's" watch. Love my ass.
Okay. I hear you, da8. What is love and how do you define it? What is your ontological derivation of love? Thanks.
Not making people choose between heaven and hell.

Being able to eliminate evil and doing it.

Not allowing suffering and anguish to exist for someone you love.

Evolve

Smartass
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05-03-2013, 03:53 PM
RE: Defining God.
I am not going to get into another one of your little word games for 48 pages defining the word "love" while you avoid answering any direct question on the topic. Not. Going. To. Do. It.

What matters is that you claim that your god loves us. I vehemently disagree no matter what definition is used. Sure you'll come up with some bullcrap philosophy based on some bullshit written in the bible. Again, circular!
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05-03-2013, 04:06 PM
RE: Defining God.
(05-03-2013 03:33 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(05-03-2013 03:31 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Okay. I hear you, da8. What is love and how do you define it? What is your ontological derivation of love? Thanks.
Not making people choose between heaven and hell.

Nobody chooses between heaven and hell. I surely don't. I cannot escape hell. God hides from me. He plants false evidence to convince me he doesn't exist. He makes the world look old and the universe look older and evolution look natural and all other things look to be entirely possible without god. He gives me only one book of mythology written by ancient savages with zero credibility and expects me to select that incredibly unlikely book from among hundreds, or maybe thousands, of other equally credible mythology and gives me no guidance whatsoever, but promises that if I choose the right one and put all my faith into that one, he will after-the-fact fill me with belief that I chose the right one.

This is the best he can do to love me and save me from hell?

Or more likely, far, far more likely, none of it is real, not god, not hell, not heaven. None of it.

This is not a choice for me. I cannot choose to believe in god any more than you can choose to believe in Santa Clause - we are both fairly sure that Santa is not real and neither one of us can force ourselves to believe in that which we deem unreal. I cannot force myself to believe in good for exactly the same reason.

And if I'm wrong, then god knows I'm wrong, knows why I'm wrong, and does nothing to correct my mistake, thereby allowing me, a being he supposedly created and loves, to burn in hell for all of eternity because I'm doing exactly what he made me to do - using my brain, my god-given brain, to examine reality and not finding god anywhere in it.

It's not a choice.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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05-03-2013, 04:13 PM
RE: Defining God.
(05-03-2013 03:31 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Displays of love? That is a joke, right? Your god, if it actually exists, has shown nothing but complete disregard for the human race. Don't even bother typing out some BS about sending it's only son down to us to die for our sins. That whole story is illogical and based on JFC's presumed immortality, no sacrifice at all.

Plagues, rape, genocide, starvation, cancer, pollution, birth defects, pedophiles in church robes, inquisitions, all done on your "god's" watch. Love my ass.
Okay. I hear you, da8. What is love and how do you define it? What is your ontological derivation of love? Thanks.
IF your trying to redefine love so that it fits into your theological world view then I can't stop you. However, I would caution one thing.

If you think that in any situation genocide and starvation count as love then you are morally bankrupt.

No

Just an outsider looking inn.
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