Deistic thoughts of an atheist
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09-01-2013, 01:36 PM
Deistic thoughts of an atheist
I am atheist and I have been asking myself what it would take for me to at least suspect that life was not an accident. I know that the mechanism by which life evolved is well understood and that is not a concern of mine. I am having a hard time putting these thoughts into words so i'll just spit it out as simply as I can.
From my perspective I don't see the universe, life or the world we live in as being designed in any way. Everything looks perfectly natural, chaotic and random. But I am wondering what things might look like in the future and how that might change my opinion. We know that, if we survive, we are in the early stages of our evolution as this could continue on for billions of years into the future, giving rise to who knows what kind of intelligent life and what we will be capable of. This doesn't even take into account the prospect of other life in the universe. So, in short, I am finding it difficult to estimate the nature of life or the universe because I am only aware of a very narrow, early slice of it.
Already life on at least this planet has connected itself together with forms of communication, forming a global network which adds richness to the experience of life. In the future I could easily imagine us contacting others in the universe and joining a community that spans across countless light years. Trying to imagine what things might be like in the distant future gives me a very diffrent picture of life and the universe in general.
When I take those possibilities into account, and I find them likely actually, and then I simply take that scenario at face value, I find it hard to outright dismiss that such a grand development was not planned. Right now when i look around I see an underdeveloped experiment that we call life, with all sorts of suffering and its just a big mess. But what if life, at least in our corner of the milky way is just getting started? It might blossom into something, that when mature, would be very hard to dismiss in any possible way as not being fully intentional.
This would not be a theistic god responsible for this, at least I don't see how it could be. This god would be a deistic god, or a god that acts like a gardener. The universe would have been ceated, like planting seeds and preparing the ground for a natural, yet planned garden to unfold and grow. Along the way some seeds would die and not make it, thingd would be messy and so forth, but the end result would be a beautiful garden. This is no consolation to those suffering now of course, but again, if this idea is true, then individuals are not the focus of this creation here, but it is the overall "garden" of life that is important.
Please excuse the poor analogies etc, I did the best I could. And no, I am not a trolling theist trying to sneak my way in here, lol.
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09-01-2013, 01:49 PM
RE: Deistic thoughts of an atheist
In my mind, the universe is too enormous, complex, and imperfect to have been created by any god or gods; theistic, deistic, or otherwise.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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09-01-2013, 02:02 PM
RE: Deistic thoughts of an atheist
(09-01-2013 01:49 PM)Impulse Wrote:  In my mind, the universe is too enormous, complex, and imperfect to have been created by any god or gods; theistic, deistic, or otherwise.
I find that to be even more interesting actually. I think my head is just spinning because I love life and the universe. I am absolutely shocked and stunned to find myself here. Sometimes I am just like, WTF? Why, how the....who....speachless.
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09-01-2013, 02:11 PM
RE: Deistic thoughts of an atheist
(09-01-2013 02:02 PM)moonbogg Wrote:  
(09-01-2013 01:49 PM)Impulse Wrote:  In my mind, the universe is too enormous, complex, and imperfect to have been created by any god or gods; theistic, deistic, or otherwise.
I find that to be even more interesting actually. I think my head is just spinning because I love life and the universe. I am absolutely shocked and stunned to find myself here. Sometimes I am just like, WTF? Why, how the....who....speachless.
I can certainly appreciate the "how did all this happen" factor. I get lost in that sometimes myself. The whole idea that we are a bunch of chemicals that evolved from something that happened completely on its own and resulted in us - thinking, breathing, self-directed beings - is very hard to swallow. Rocks? Mountains? Oceans? Sure, that's not so hard. But we are alive, conscious, and free. So I think I understand where you are coming from. It's just that, for me at least, a god of any kind just seems like a random plug to stop up the drain of missing knowledge. I'd rather just accept that I just don't understand and hope that some day answers may be found by future generations.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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09-01-2013, 02:28 PM (This post was last modified: 09-01-2013 02:35 PM by moonbogg.)
RE: Deistic thoughts of an atheist
Yep, you got it. I'm just wondering though, at what point do things start to look a little suspicious? Is there a point that things could develop to that would make you a little suspicious? I like thinking about possibilities. So I am wondering, is there a point that life could develop to that would make you simply sit back, take a look at it and say to yourself, "There is no F-ing way that the experience of life is not the goal here"? Is that possible for you? It is for me. Granted the world does not meet that criteria, but I have done this thought experiment and have concluded that I do have a threshold. If one day the universe is just full of life, and its all super advanced, and everyone is in contact with one another and its just one big, huge happy community, then at that point I would sit back and say, "No F-ing way was life not the goal here".
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09-01-2013, 02:47 PM
RE: Deistic thoughts of an atheist
(09-01-2013 02:28 PM)moonbogg Wrote:  Yep, you got it. I'm just wondering though, at what point do things start to look a little suspicious? Is there a point that things could develop to that would make you a little suspicious? I like thinking about possibilities. So I am wondering, is there a point that life could develop to that would make you simply sit back, take a look at it and say to yourself, "There is no F-ing way that the experience of life is not the goal here"? Is that possible for you? It is for me. Granted the world does not meet that criteria, but I have done this thought experiment and have concluded that I do have a threshold. If one day the universe is just full of life, and its all super advanced, and everyone is in contact with one another and its just one big, huge happy community, then at that point I would sit back and say, "No F-ing way was life not the goal here".
Whose goal?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-01-2013, 03:19 PM (This post was last modified: 09-01-2013 03:26 PM by moonbogg.)
RE: Deistic thoughts of an atheist
(09-01-2013 02:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-01-2013 02:28 PM)moonbogg Wrote:  Yep, you got it. I'm just wondering though, at what point do things start to look a little suspicious? Is there a point that things could develop to that would make you a little suspicious? I like thinking about possibilities. So I am wondering, is there a point that life could develop to that would make you simply sit back, take a look at it and say to yourself, "There is no F-ing way that the experience of life is not the goal here"? Is that possible for you? It is for me. Granted the world does not meet that criteria, but I have done this thought experiment and have concluded that I do have a threshold. If one day the universe is just full of life, and its all super advanced, and everyone is in contact with one another and its just one big, huge happy community, then at that point I would sit back and say, "No F-ing way was life not the goal here".
Whose goal?
I don't know. I'm just saying there is a theoretical scenario that would make me suspicious enough to where I would find it likely that a life filled universe was the goal of something. I may remain agnostic due to lack of evidence, but at that point I would suspect that something created the universe or at least was aware of what was happening. I am admitting that I am capable of being pushed into, or close to a faith position with regard to a conscious creator. I find it interesting to test the limits of my skepticism with thought experiments.
EDIT: I can't talk about this stuff with my theist friends because they will think I am turning into a theist and they will only try to drag me into the pit with them. If I can't talk about it with atheists either, then i'm really screwed as far as finding meaningful discussion goes.
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09-01-2013, 03:23 PM
RE: Deistic thoughts of an atheist
(09-01-2013 03:19 PM)moonbogg Wrote:  
(09-01-2013 02:47 PM)Chas Wrote:  Whose goal?
I don't know. I'm just saying there is a theoretical scenario that would make me suspicious enough to where I would find it likely that a life filled universe was the goal of something. I may remain agnostic due to lack of evidence, but at that point I would suspect that something created the universe or at least was aware of what was happening. I am admitting that I am capable of being pushed into, or close to a faith position with regard to a conscious creator. I find it interesting to test the limits of my skepticism with though experiments.
EDIT: I can't talk about this stuff with my theist friends because they will think I am turning into a theist and they will only try to drag me into the pit with them.
You're probably the most open-minded journey-driven Atheist I have met.
Not totally sure though since you've only but 5 posts so far.

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

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09-01-2013, 03:24 PM
RE: Deistic thoughts of an atheist
(09-01-2013 01:49 PM)Impulse Wrote:  In my mind, the universe is too enormous, complex, and imperfect to have been created by any god or gods; theistic, deistic, or otherwise.
I don't get the Universe being "imperfect" part. What would be a "perfect" version of the Universe?

“What you believe to be true will control you, whether it’s true or not.”

—Jeremy LaBorde
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09-01-2013, 03:35 PM
RE: Deistic thoughts of an atheist
(09-01-2013 03:24 PM)ideasonscribe Wrote:  
(09-01-2013 01:49 PM)Impulse Wrote:  In my mind, the universe is too enormous, complex, and imperfect to have been created by any god or gods; theistic, deistic, or otherwise.
I don't get the Universe being "imperfect" part. What would be a "perfect" version of the Universe?
It's the same old Theistic show-stopper: pain and suffering.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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