Democracy.
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06-02-2012, 07:00 AM
RE: Democracy.
(06-02-2012 06:56 AM)Jeff Wrote:  
(06-02-2012 02:48 AM)bemore Wrote:  When the people of the UK called for a referendum to leave the failing European Union David Cameron refused it.......

What's your understanding of why he refused it?

Well he said that leaving the Euro Zone would be disastrous....not just for the European countrys but for the UK itself.

That may or may not be so......but he is meant to be a representative of the people......when the people are removed from the equasion then it doesnt become a democracy anymore.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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06-02-2012, 09:02 AM (This post was last modified: 06-02-2012 09:10 AM by Peterkin.)
RE: Democracy.
The biggest problem with modern democracy is too many people.
In a population of 100,000 it's relatively easy to see and keep up with what government is doing. In a system as big as the UK, with three and a half different countries, the jetsam of a dozen colonies; a population of over 60 million people of varied origin, interests and culture, it's damn near impossible for a citizen to know what the issues are, let alone what the government is doing or intending to do about even the few issues that are close to that citizen's own life. As to foreign policy or long-term fiscal policy, the average citizen hasn't a clue.

It could work, in theory, if:
1. elected representatives were all, or mostly, sincere in their efforts to accomplish the platforms on which they ran
2. news media were informed of government activity
2b. news media reported, accurately and in detail
3. the public actually paid attention
4. money didn't participate in elections
4b. and the populace did
5. the upper house and judiciary were independent of party politics, whether through appointment or electioneering

None of that is going to happen, as long as great wealth and power are to be gained in public office and in the influencing of public officials.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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06-02-2012, 09:15 AM
RE: Democracy.
I think they individual politician really does have his constituents best interests at heart. But the process of making things happen is a tough one. Too much money involved and too many behind the door deals.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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17-02-2012, 08:52 PM
RE: Democracy.
(06-02-2012 07:00 AM)bemore Wrote:  That may or may not be so......but he is meant to be a representative of the people......when the people are removed from the equasion then it doesnt become a democracy anymore.

To be fair though, 99% of the population of the UK have very little to no grasp of economics. That makes them completely unqualified to make a good judgement. Why would anyone want to leave a potentially catastrophic decision in the hands of people who aren't qualified to pass judgement and don't even understand the pros and cons of the possible outcomes?

In a way it gives me more hope for the future that the general population have no control over how the country is run. Most people in this country either think what they are told to by their favoured newspaper, or see every action/decision as a stand-alone thing as opposed to understanding that everything is linked and the bigger picture needs to be considered. I'd rather keep the running of the country away from people like that.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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18-02-2012, 04:22 AM
RE: Democracy.
(17-02-2012 08:52 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(06-02-2012 07:00 AM)bemore Wrote:  That may or may not be so......but he is meant to be a representative of the people......when the people are removed from the equasion then it doesnt become a democracy anymore.

To be fair though, 99% of the population of the UK have very little to no grasp of economics. That makes them completely unqualified to make a good judgement. Why would anyone want to leave a potentially catastrophic decision in the hands of people who aren't qualified to pass judgement and don't even understand the pros and cons of the possible outcomes?

In a way it gives me more hope for the future that the general population have no control over how the country is run. Most people in this country either think what they are told to by their favoured newspaper, or see every action/decision as a stand-alone thing as opposed to understanding that everything is linked and the bigger picture needs to be considered. I'd rather keep the running of the country away from people like that.

I have to agree with you hughsie that a lot of people dont know about economics......but whos fault is to blame for that??? Is it down to the individual to actually take an interest or is the the goverments responsibility to teach everybody economics???

I respect your opinions hughsie.....dont take this question wrong but do you not think that you are putting a lot of "faith" into your govements to look out for your best interests.......I mean whos to say that these people are any better than you, me or anybody else on this forum. Yes these people are educated but surely that means if everybody was educated then when huge decisions have to be made then the people who make these "votes count" have a better understanding of what they are agreeing to???

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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18-02-2012, 04:51 AM (This post was last modified: 18-02-2012 04:56 AM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: Democracy.
(04-02-2012 09:26 PM)bemore Wrote:  Just a quick one really.......was gonna make a poll but then I decided to ask two questions instead of one.

The first question I would like to ask is do you think that your countrys goverment has the common peoples interest at heart??? Id like you to elaborate on your answer as best you can please Big Grin

The second question is do you actually feel that you have any power or say democractically wise on how your country is run and how global politics go down??? Again id be appreciative if people can elaborate on there view as best they can please.

Nice one Cool

No, the corporations and the wealthy practically own the govt at this point.
No. One vote means nothing even in the best of circumstances.

This is no longer a democracy, its a plutarchy. The govt is controlled and almost only concerned with the interests of the wealthy. They control everything to the point that even our ability to vote has been taken away. Ohh I can still cast my vote, but its all just a nice illusion to keep the people from rioting. It doesnt actually mean anything, because the real election is already long over. The rich already bought and paid for the two people you got to vote for months ago.

Even if a non-conforming person were to get elected, say like Obama, the checks and balances system, ironically originally created to protect us, would ensure that no major action could ever happen.

How long have we been on this failure Trickle down economic plan now? 30 Years?
If it was gonna work...ohh wait, it did work...just not in the way they described.

So I don't vote, fucking pointless.
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18-02-2012, 05:13 AM
RE: Democracy.
(18-02-2012 04:51 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  No, the corporations and the wealthy practically own the govt at this point.
No. One vote means nothing even in the best of circumstances.

This is no longer a democracy, its a plutarchy. The govt is controlled and almost only concerned with the interests of the wealthy. They control everything to the point that even our ability to vote has been taken away. Ohh I can still cast my vote, but its all just a nice illusion to keep the people from rioting. It doesnt actually mean anything, because the real election is already long over. The rich already bought and paid for the two people you got to vote for months ago.

Even if a non-conforming person were to get elected, say like Obama, the checks and balances system, ironically originally created to protect us, would ensure that no major action could ever happen.

How long have we been on this failure Trickle down economic plan now? 30 Years?
If it was gonna work...ohh wait, it did work...just not in the way they described.

So I don't vote, fucking pointless.

I agree with your viewpoint Mystic.....put well better than I could of done myself. I am a little confused on why you have this viewpoint yet you believe in the global warming scam......at the end of the day you are as much entitled to your own opinion as everyone else and I do respect your views, even if I dont agree with them.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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18-02-2012, 05:32 PM
RE: Democracy.
(18-02-2012 04:22 AM)bemore Wrote:  I have to agree with you hughsie that a lot of people dont know about economics......but whos fault is to blame for that??? Is it down to the individual to actually take an interest or is the the goverments responsibility to teach everybody economics???

I respect your opinions hughsie.....dont take this question wrong but do you not think that you are putting a lot of "faith" into your govements to look out for your best interests.......I mean whos to say that these people are any better than you, me or anybody else on this forum. Yes these people are educated but surely that means if everybody was educated then when huge decisions have to be made then the people who make these "votes count" have a better understanding of what they are agreeing to???

Haha, you don't have to worry about me taking anything wrong, I'm not easily offended.

In answer to the first question I think it's up to the individual to take an interest if they want to understand something. I would find it hypocritical for someone to take no interest in something and then complain they weren't told about it. I also think that it would be damaging for the country if the Government taught people about economics because then they would only get one party's opinions instead of a more general/objective overview that allows them to formulate their own opinions (and they would be taught a totally different set of economic ideas every time a new party got in). Plus I can't think of a feasible way for the Government to be responsible for teaching people about economics, especially in inner-cities.

In answer to your second question, yes. I am well aware that I am putting far more faith in the Government than is ideal. I see that approach not a particularly good, but as the better than any other option on the table. For me it's the best of a bad situation.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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