Democrats need a change
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10-11-2016, 02:28 PM
Democrats need a change
Disclaimer: I hadn't actually registered with a party until this year when I registered in order to vote in the primary for Bernie. I leaned Dem for the last several years but preferred to officially be one of the "Independents."

As upset as I am with the election of the demagogue Fuckface von Clownstick, I am also pissed off at the Democratic Party and Hilary. And not in a conspiracy kind of way that there was some sort of rigging against Bernie. The party picked Hilary, but we shouldn't have. The party pushed a moderate centrist establishment candidate during a period that is historically against establishment (by period, I mean the time around recessions and recovery). The party fucked up, Hilary fucked up, and the result was that the Republicans walked away with complete control of the Federal Government instead of just 2/3 of it and they maintain what is essentially a stranglehold on the states.

-The Democrats made the assumption that in order to get undecided voters and moderates to vote for them, they needed someone who was a centrist. That is some flawed fucking logic because it makes the assumption that all moderates want is a moderate to vote for. Undecided voters want someone who appeals to them in a way that says they will work to get things done, and you don't have to be a fucking moderate to make that promise. Bernie and Warren could have pulled them in too, but nooooooo.

-The Democrats assumed that a progressive would turn away voters, except a majority of the country wants what the progressives want. Better gun control, better healthcare, less war, regulation of Wall Street etc. Why the hell wouldn't you capitalize on that?

-Also, instead of going with a progressive for VP, Hilary picks another goddamn moderate. How the hell does this make the progressive base enthusiastic about voting for you?

-Hilary should never have tried to run this time. She couldn't get it in 2008. And while I think most of the "scandals" are just bullshit from the right, it was clear that her running was a guaranteed shit-show for all of us. We should be able to elect a woman for president in the 21st century, but Hilary's chance for that was in 2008 and if it was going to be a woman this time it needed to be someone like Warren.

-Hilary fucked us too because she sat back and waited for Trump to lose instead of trying to actually win. The problem with that strategy was that Trump did and said things that would cause a normal candidate to lose, but he was an abnormal candidate.



The Democrats need to get their shit together and actually start putting progressives in positions to win elections. They need to appeal to their fucking voting base instead of trying to appeal to the undecided and independents. Dammit

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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10-11-2016, 02:37 PM
RE: Democrats need a change
Bowing


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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10-11-2016, 02:53 PM
RE: Democrats need a change
(10-11-2016 02:28 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Disclaimer: I hadn't actually registered with a party until this year when I registered in order to vote in the primary for Bernie. I leaned Dem for the last several years but preferred to officially be one of the "Independents."

As upset as I am with the election of the demagogue Fuckface von Clownstick, I am also pissed off at the Democratic Party and Hilary. And not in a conspiracy kind of way that there was some sort of rigging against Bernie. The party picked Hilary, but we shouldn't have. The party pushed a moderate centrist establishment candidate during a period that is historically against establishment (by period, I mean the time around recessions and recovery). The party fucked up, Hilary fucked up, and the result was that the Republicans walked away with complete control of the Federal Government instead of just 2/3 of it and they maintain what is essentially a stranglehold on the states.

-The Democrats made the assumption that in order to get undecided voters and moderates to vote for them, they needed someone who was a centrist. That is some flawed fucking logic because it makes the assumption that all moderates want is a moderate to vote for. Undecided voters want someone who appeals to them in a way that says they will work to get things done, and you don't have to be a fucking moderate to make that promise. Bernie and Warren could have pulled them in too, but nooooooo.

-The Democrats assumed that a progressive would turn away voters, except a majority of the country wants what the progressives want. Better gun control, better healthcare, less war, regulation of Wall Street etc. Why the hell wouldn't you capitalize on that?

-Also, instead of going with a progressive for VP, Hilary picks another goddamn moderate. How the hell does this make the progressive base enthusiastic about voting for you?

-Hilary should never have tried to run this time. She couldn't get it in 2008. And while I think most of the "scandals" are just bullshit from the right, it was clear that her running was a guaranteed shit-show for all of us. We should be able to elect a woman for president in the 21st century, but Hilary's chance for that was in 2008 and if it was going to be a woman this time it needed to be someone like Warren.

-Hilary fucked us too because she sat back and waited for Trump to lose instead of trying to actually win. The problem with that strategy was that Trump did and said things that would cause a normal candidate to lose, but he was an abnormal candidate.



The Democrats need to get their shit together and actually start putting progressives in positions to win elections. They need to appeal to their fucking voting base instead of trying to appeal to the undecided and independents. Dammit

I liked Elizabeth Warren too. But she might have not had the name recognition.

Honestly, I wasn't the biggest Hillary fan either but I really do think she was raked over the coals and investigated because she was a woman. I truly don't think that if she was a man the republicans would have spent so much time on her. I can't , off hand, think of any male politician in the last 60 years that was investigated as much as Hillary by either party and I don't think she was any more crooked than any other political. Maybe Richard Nixon, but even with him the investigation was only for a year or so during Watergate. With Hillary it was almost 25 years of constant investigations and I think in the future, when we look back on her career it will be very clear that her womanhood was really what the republicans mostly hated.

During the campaign trump people actually shouted ..."She's a witch!" It was right out of the Dark Ages......or that scene from Monty Python.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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10-11-2016, 03:03 PM
RE: Democrats need a change
"Well -- We did add the nose..."



Smile

.......................................

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10-11-2016, 03:20 PM
RE: Democrats need a change
(10-11-2016 02:53 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(10-11-2016 02:28 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Disclaimer: I hadn't actually registered with a party until this year when I registered in order to vote in the primary for Bernie. I leaned Dem for the last several years but preferred to officially be one of the "Independents."

As upset as I am with the election of the demagogue Fuckface von Clownstick, I am also pissed off at the Democratic Party and Hilary. And not in a conspiracy kind of way that there was some sort of rigging against Bernie. The party picked Hilary, but we shouldn't have. The party pushed a moderate centrist establishment candidate during a period that is historically against establishment (by period, I mean the time around recessions and recovery). The party fucked up, Hilary fucked up, and the result was that the Republicans walked away with complete control of the Federal Government instead of just 2/3 of it and they maintain what is essentially a stranglehold on the states.

-The Democrats made the assumption that in order to get undecided voters and moderates to vote for them, they needed someone who was a centrist. That is some flawed fucking logic because it makes the assumption that all moderates want is a moderate to vote for. Undecided voters want someone who appeals to them in a way that says they will work to get things done, and you don't have to be a fucking moderate to make that promise. Bernie and Warren could have pulled them in too, but nooooooo.

-The Democrats assumed that a progressive would turn away voters, except a majority of the country wants what the progressives want. Better gun control, better healthcare, less war, regulation of Wall Street etc. Why the hell wouldn't you capitalize on that?

-Also, instead of going with a progressive for VP, Hilary picks another goddamn moderate. How the hell does this make the progressive base enthusiastic about voting for you?

-Hilary should never have tried to run this time. She couldn't get it in 2008. And while I think most of the "scandals" are just bullshit from the right, it was clear that her running was a guaranteed shit-show for all of us. We should be able to elect a woman for president in the 21st century, but Hilary's chance for that was in 2008 and if it was going to be a woman this time it needed to be someone like Warren.

-Hilary fucked us too because she sat back and waited for Trump to lose instead of trying to actually win. The problem with that strategy was that Trump did and said things that would cause a normal candidate to lose, but he was an abnormal candidate.



The Democrats need to get their shit together and actually start putting progressives in positions to win elections. They need to appeal to their fucking voting base instead of trying to appeal to the undecided and independents. Dammit

I liked Elizabeth Warren too. But she might have not had the name recognition.

Honestly, I wasn't the biggest Hillary fan either but I really do think she was raked over the coals and investigated because she was a woman. I truly don't think that if she was a man the republicans would have spent so much time on her. I can't , off hand, think of any male politician in the last 60 years that was investigated as much as Hillary by either party and I don't think she was any more crooked than any other political. Maybe Richard Nixon, but even with him the investigation was only for a year or so during Watergate. With Hillary it was almost 25 years of constant investigations and I think in the future, when we look back on her career it will be very clear that her womanhood was really what the republicans mostly hated.

During the campaign trump people actually shouted ..."She's a witch!" It was right out of the Dark Ages......or that scene from Monty Python.

"I liked Elizabeth Warren too. But she might have not had the name recognition. "

Obama didn't have the name recognition either, but he held the office for 8 years. Warren damn sure could have been a force to be reckoned with as a presidential or VP candidate.

"Honestly, I wasn't the biggest Hillary fan either but I really do think she was raked over the coals and investigated because she was a woman. "

Yes and yes. Hilary was at the bottom of my list of candidates I'd even consider voting for. And yes, being a woman and being a Clinton meant she was unfairly and unjustly targeted. But that wasn't new to anyone. That didn't magically start before the primary season did. It was a known factor long before she ever jumped into the race that if we picked her, we'd be dealing with "scandal" and investigations constantly.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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10-11-2016, 03:43 PM
RE: Democrats need a change
Let me start by saying as First Lady, I never had a favorable opinion of HC. It always seemed her ideas for the country involved more of what should have been her husband's job. Setting policy or laws that all Americans would have follow.

In 2008 or 2009, when Obama made her Secretary of State, I said then it was a mistake for her to take it. She should have been a UN ambassador or something else involving women and children's issues around the world. But she wanted something more powerful.

Benghazi was always a red herring, the republican congress cut embassy spending. Also there there more attacks on embassies when GW Bush was president.

I have felt since obama offered his support to HC for president it was still payback for 2008.

But the email scandal was fart that stink wouldn't leave the room. She probably should have stepped aside for Bernie, but very much like her republican counterpart, her ego wouldn't allow for that.

This made her a problematic candidate. Having a huge swath of Bernie supporters feel sidelined didn't help. The Whole super delegate fiasco was pure bullshit. She had a chance to speak to those people but instead assumed they'd vote for anyway. She could have built her own momentum had she traveled more to areas where Sanders did well and ask him to join her.

A problem she could have overcome had she gone more to the people that she wanted to serve.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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11-11-2016, 12:08 PM
RE: Democrats need a change
(10-11-2016 03:43 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Let me start by saying as First Lady, I never had a favorable opinion of HC. It always seemed her ideas for the country involved more of what should have been her husband's job. Setting policy or laws that all Americans would have follow.

In 2008 or 2009, when Obama made her Secretary of State, I said then it was a mistake for her to take it. She should have been a UN ambassador or something else involving women and children's issues around the world. But she wanted something more powerful.

Benghazi was always a red herring, the republican congress cut embassy spending. Also there there more attacks on embassies when GW Bush was president.

I have felt since obama offered his support to HC for president it was still payback for 2008.

But the email scandal was fart that stink wouldn't leave the room. She probably should have stepped aside for Bernie, but very much like her republican counterpart, her ego wouldn't allow for that.

This made her a problematic candidate. Having a huge swath of Bernie supporters feel sidelined didn't help. The Whole super delegate fiasco was pure bullshit. She had a chance to speak to those people but instead assumed they'd vote for anyway. She could have built her own momentum had she traveled more to areas where Sanders did well and ask him to join her.

A problem she could have overcome had she gone more to the people that she wanted to serve.

That seems largely true, but there is the fact that she was and is despised by a very large segment of the population.
I don't think that Democrats in general realize this. Had they just listened to people outside of their circle, they might have gotten an inkling of it. Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-11-2016, 12:21 PM
RE: Democrats need a change
The one thing that might get me to vote ( D ) again ---

Come up with a party platform -- that I don't need a lawyer to interpret.

One or two pages of clear, concise information --- rather than 400 pages of ass blowing smoke......

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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11-11-2016, 12:21 PM
RE: Democrats need a change
(11-11-2016 12:08 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-11-2016 03:43 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Let me start by saying as First Lady, I never had a favorable opinion of HC. It always seemed her ideas for the country involved more of what should have been her husband's job. Setting policy or laws that all Americans would have follow.

In 2008 or 2009, when Obama made her Secretary of State, I said then it was a mistake for her to take it. She should have been a UN ambassador or something else involving women and children's issues around the world. But she wanted something more powerful.

Benghazi was always a red herring, the republican congress cut embassy spending. Also there there more attacks on embassies when GW Bush was president.

I have felt since obama offered his support to HC for president it was still payback for 2008.

But the email scandal was fart that stink wouldn't leave the room. She probably should have stepped aside for Bernie, but very much like her republican counterpart, her ego wouldn't allow for that.

This made her a problematic candidate. Having a huge swath of Bernie supporters feel sidelined didn't help. The Whole super delegate fiasco was pure bullshit. She had a chance to speak to those people but instead assumed they'd vote for anyway. She could have built her own momentum had she traveled more to areas where Sanders did well and ask him to join her.

A problem she could have overcome had she gone more to the people that she wanted to serve.

That seems largely true, but there is the fact that she was and is despised by a very large segment of the population.
I don't think that Democrats in general realize this. Had they just listened to people outside of their circle, they might have gotten an inkling of it. Consider

She should have stepped aside, but her ego wouldn't allow for that. She truly felt the stage was set and this was her time.
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11-11-2016, 12:29 PM
RE: Democrats need a change
(10-11-2016 02:53 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  [quote='TheBeardedDude' pid='1087444' dateline='1478809698']
I liked Elizabeth Warren too. But she might have not had the name recognition.

In a social media campaign based primarily on smear tactics, that can arguably be an advantage. Deserved or not, Hillary entered the race already despised. Her opposition has had two decades to destroy her.

'Murican Canadian
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