Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
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24-07-2017, 06:16 PM
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
I'm not sure how full unemployment would even work. It's a catch phrase but in reality it's meaningless. We can have full unemployment now if we were willing to let people work for $2/hour. We're not, though, so we don't.

Universal Basic Income is another catch phrase that get thrown out. Pushes for things like a $15/minimum wage sound nice but those idea come with a lot of potential baggage. and, one of the unintended side effects will be that automation is only going to increase. A lot of jobs are going the way of the Dodo and there isn't much that can be done about that. We really need to find a solution to some of our basic economic problems that don't include propping up wage rates over what the market can really bear.

I'm almost 50 years old, I have 2 teenage sons and will be looking to pay for college in 2 years and I think I have a pretty good sense of what the economic problems are of the middle class because they are my issues.

If you want to get my vote, here are the issues i'd like you to tackle (I'm identifying the problem, not the solutions because I have no idea what the fucking solutions are)

1. Healthcare - It needs to not be tied to employment and it needs to be affordable without employers. Employer provided healthcare is a gigantic economic anchor. Fear of losing insurance is why people don't move to jobs they like better, start businesses, etc. And, rising healthcare costs are a big contributor to why wages are so flat. The cost of healthcare eats up so much money for many employers, they don't give raises. I know that's true where I work. I've not received a fixed raise since February of 2014. I've gotten small bumps in my bonuses but those are not increases in monthly cashflow and they are variable and subject to change from year to year.

2. Cost of college - having kids come out of school owing >$100,000 is financial suicide and is killing economic growth. College grads can't afford to take "real" jobs at times because it requires them to move and they often can't afford to pay rent, eat, for a car AND their student loans This is a major economic anchor as young people are holding off getting married, buying houses and all the things that drive an economy.

3. Cost of living/retirement - the statistics on savings rates and retirement funding in this country are frightening. We are a nation of grasshoppers and the few ants we have are going to get royally fucked. I put money into savings every month and have for years but I don't have nearly enough to retire. I'll be working until I'm 70. And, according to what I read, I am WELL out in front of the curve. By the time you are my age your net work should be worth close to $1,000,000. I'm not at that number, but I have a plan to get there that includes continuing to pay off my house. But, I am not the norm. There are a lot of people with little equity in their homes, little to no retirement savings, and tons of credit card debt and no way to pay it off. These people are royally fucked and there is no easy solution. Some of this is because people are irresponsible, some of it is because wages are flat while cost of living goes up, and some of it is because not everyone has fully recovered personally from the 2008 crash. Whatever the reason, it's a huge problem.

If a party - any party - can come up with workable, realistic solutions to 2 of those issues, they'll get my vote. I'm not holding my breath, though.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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24-07-2017, 06:16 PM
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
(24-07-2017 05:25 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  A better deal: Better Jobs. Better ingredients. Better Pizza. Papa Johns.

They're being clowned for this new slogan all over Twitter and Facebook.

They'll probably drop it soon.

The issue I have with Papa Johns is that it's not Hell Pizza and as an Atheist I'm contractually obliged to buy my pizza from Hell Pizza. Plus, Hell Pizza is genuinely a shit ton better than Papa Johns because it's the best pizza in the country.

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24-07-2017, 06:20 PM
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
(24-07-2017 06:12 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Although, I suspect our resident nazi fucktards will object to anything that doesn't make the rich richer.

Here's a crazy thought: perhaps if we didn't refer to people who don't agree with us in derogatory terms and took the time to listen to what they have to say and why they feel the way they do, perhaps we could find ways to move forward and solve problems.

Just sayin'

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When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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24-07-2017, 06:29 PM
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
(24-07-2017 06:20 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(24-07-2017 06:12 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Although, I suspect our resident nazi fucktards will object to anything that doesn't make the rich richer.

Here's a crazy thought: perhaps if we didn't refer to people who don't agree with us in derogatory terms and took the time to listen to what they have to say and why they feel the way they do, perhaps we could find ways to move forward and solve problems.

Just sayin'

Not interested in Trump supporters opinions or moving forward with them. I want them ridiculed, marginalized, and politically crippled. Some things need to be crushed, not bargained with.
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24-07-2017, 06:30 PM (This post was last modified: 24-07-2017 06:33 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
dupey dupey doo

#sigh
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24-07-2017, 06:33 PM
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
(24-07-2017 05:45 PM)ImFred Wrote:  I demand nothing less than Universal Basic Income and full UNemployment.

I second it. More money for R&D to team up with Musk and make the machines do all the goddam work. Then we will have really done something worthwhile.

(24-07-2017 05:51 PM)epronovost Wrote:  
(24-07-2017 05:45 PM)ImFred Wrote:  I demand nothing less than Universal Basic Income and full UNemployment.

These aren't bad ideas, but to be possible you would need a revolution not a simple election (especially not a mid term election).

No, you just need better machines. Tongue

(24-07-2017 05:56 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  Actually an automation revolution might get us there.

Thumbsup

Yes

#sigh
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24-07-2017, 06:37 PM
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
(24-07-2017 06:01 PM)epronovost Wrote:  Industrial revolutions are revolutions nonetheless and yes it's comming rather fast. I wonder if our political and economical system will be ready for it. The previous industrial revolutions destroyed over decades of wars and civil strifes the old europeen monarchies. It leaves me to wonder...

No, we are not preparing for the 60% unemployment which will inevitable accompany the automation. Basic income and universal health care is a start. Consider it a prophylactic against the otherwise inevitable resulting Mad Max ensuing chaos. I really don't see another viable option to keep the masses from going pitchforks and torches.

#sigh
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24-07-2017, 06:42 PM
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
(24-07-2017 06:33 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(24-07-2017 05:45 PM)ImFred Wrote:  I demand nothing less than Universal Basic Income and full UNemployment.

I second it. More money for R&D to team up with Musk and make the machines do all the goddam work. Then we will have really done something worthwhile.

(24-07-2017 05:51 PM)epronovost Wrote:  These aren't bad ideas, but to be possible you would need a revolution not a simple election (especially not a mid term election).

No, you just need better machines. Tongue

(24-07-2017 05:56 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  Actually an automation revolution might get us there.

Thumbsup

Yes

How about a machine that harvests wayward raccoons and turns them into Soylent Green? Though I really have to wonder why anyone would want to eat a product with that name.

BoT, I'm hopeful, but not seeing much that is going to get the Dems going in time.
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24-07-2017, 07:35 PM
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
I don't think they're casting their net wide enough, one slogan does not fit all. If I were the democrat PR guy I would add:
"Meals on Wheels Deal" for the elderly
"Deal or No Deal" for those Americans that don't want to change their government services provider
"Better Deal or Happy Meals" This would be for the kids, or Donald Trump
"Raw Deal" for people who like sushi
"Stealin Double-Dealin and Coppin a Feelin" for people who for whatever reason have a problem with the letter "g"
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25-07-2017, 04:40 AM (This post was last modified: 25-07-2017 05:47 AM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
(24-07-2017 06:16 PM)BnW Wrote:  I'll be working until I'm 70.

I thought I would work until I was 70, but my company moved 400 of 1050 of our people from the Philadelphia area out to Denver, then closed our division. I had to retire early, at the age of 59, on much less income than I had planned. And even that was only possible because my wife and I had had no kids to put through college, and the company still offered a pension (which was being phased out at the time I left).

I'm glad I'm old, since future automation will undermine many people's security even further.

At least by voting for Democrats, people like me can try to regulate the corporations that rule our lives. We need to balance out their power somehow, and government regulations are the obvious counter-balance.
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