Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
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25-07-2017, 07:49 PM (This post was last modified: 25-07-2017 07:53 PM by BackSlider.)
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
(24-07-2017 05:45 PM)ImFred Wrote:  I demand nothing less than Universal Basic Income and full UNemployment.

Did you forget to include a bud in every bowl?

You have to be odd to be #1.
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25-07-2017, 08:10 PM
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
I am about to start smoking weed again.
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25-07-2017, 08:14 PM (This post was last modified: 25-07-2017 09:23 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
Quote:Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"

Wow. And Trump said in two weeks they'd have something which was "wondeful for all Americans" (healthcare).. even though they failed for 7 years. I'm sure we all can believe this guy. Right ? Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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25-07-2017, 08:17 PM
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
(25-07-2017 08:10 PM)ImFred Wrote:  I am about to start smoking weed again.

I think in retirement would be optimum start up for me, since I'd have to move to a nuther state. One where there isn't snow and just a bike will suffice for ones to & fro errands. I only worry I may not live that long or in the least to be healthy enough to be unhealthy bout it.
Tons of rotten incidental chit can happen before that date. Undecided

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25-07-2017, 08:47 PM
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
(24-07-2017 06:16 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(24-07-2017 05:25 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  A better deal: Better Jobs. Better ingredients. Better Pizza. Papa Johns.

They're being clowned for this new slogan all over Twitter and Facebook.

They'll probably drop it soon.

The issue I have with Papa Johns is that it's not Hell Pizza and as an Atheist I'm contractually obliged to buy my pizza from Hell Pizza. Plus, Hell Pizza is genuinely a shit ton better than Papa Johns because it's the best pizza in the country.

Take that back, Sal's Pizza is the best pizza in the country. That NY style shit is the tits.

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25-07-2017, 11:00 PM
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
Historically it would seem that the incumbent party invariably does worse at the mid-terms. In Trump's case, this will be guaranteed—as vote of no confidence.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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25-07-2017, 11:58 PM
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
(25-07-2017 11:00 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Historically it would seem that the incumbent party invariably does worse at the mid-terms. In Trump's case, this will be guaranteed—as vote of no confidence.

Historically maybe, but things have changed. The country has become more partisan than ever. There might be republicans that dislike Trump, but they'll still vote for republicans in Congress. The democrats have a huge mountain to climb. I think they have over 20 senators up for reelection in states Trump won. And democrats can't find a way to motivate donors. They wasted millions on the 3 special elections. Over the last 4 months democrats have seen some of the lowest donations in over a decade. The RNC is pulling in almost $15 million a month and the DNC is struggling to make $5 million a month. The democrats currently only have $7 million cash on hand while the RNC has over $40 million.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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26-07-2017, 12:36 AM
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
(24-07-2017 05:22 PM)BnW Wrote:  So, Democrats are pretending taking to heart the message that they have nothing to offer other than not being a bloviating asshole and are realizing that perhaps that won't be enough to give them success at the ballot box come November 2018. So, they are now offering voters a Better Deal

Most of this is just a repacking of old stuff that has tried, and failed, before and I think they need to do better than this. Just counting on Trump to implode may not be enough. In fact, I'm pretty sure it won't be. Having someone other than Pelosi and Chuck Schumer deliver the message would help, too. I don't know which of them makes my skin crawl more. Let's just call it a tie.

One glimmer of hope I saw earlier today was there was a statement that the Democratic Party could consider a single-payer system for health care. I'll believe it when I see it, but if they got behind that as a platform, I think they could have a real chance of winning an election.

We'll see. I think ultimately the Democrats will come back on top because the pendulum always swings. Both parties are beholden to corporate money and voters always get sick of the party in power. But, they need to do something bold if they want to take a part of Congress in 2018 and keep Trump out of a 2nd term. Something other than "we're not that guy" is required.

It really depends on what the Democrats do going into the future. If they continue to double down on the things that make them lose then they are going to keep losing.
1.)No matter where you stand on the issue of gun-control it is the single most losing issue for the Dems. When the Democrats lost big in Congress in '94 even Bill Clinton stated it was due largely due to the Assult Weapons Ban (in his opinion). That's not to say they shouldn't hold that position just that as long as they keep it as a tent pole issue of the party they WILL suffer for it.

2.)They have to reach out to middle/upper-middle class white voters, especially blue collar workers, because it works. Obama, when he was running in 2008, frequently reached out to working class whites and it paid off, paid off so well for him that when Hilary failed to do just that not only did they not vote for her a large amount of those that voted for Obama voted Republican.
(Side note: Gonna get a little ranty here so feel free to skip over this but when you have people on the Dem side that "stand behind" people spewing a racist, sexist, anti-"Cis gendered white male" bigotry your not gonna garner a lot of support over the guy who, rightly, steps up and calls those people fucking assholes.)

3.)Don't be bloody stupid! When NBC News/ Wall Street Journal did a poll during the election they found that Donald Trump was the single most hated presidential candidate ever. Who did the DNC force through as the Democratic candidate? The second most hated! This is idiotic if you actually want to win, she is literally the only person in the Democratic line up that couldn't beat the man. While I might think that Bernie Sanders is economically illiterate buffon who's present popularity is due to being the guy promising the most free shit to people (for the record I think Trump is the human equivalent of a heroin needle filled dumpster fire) is there anyone out there that doesn't think the man would be president today if he had been the candidate? I sure as shit think he would have.
Before anyone jumps to conclusions yes the Republicans are just as bloody stupid, just not in areas the effect voting as much.

(24-07-2017 06:07 PM)ImFred Wrote:  We need to embrace job loss through automation, as well.
Eeeeh... I mean I agree it's a good thing but it's not the end all be all, you need automation that can produce enough to meet demand. If, for example, you fully automate agriculture but can only produce enough food to feed half the population then it's a very very bad thing. It's not some magical state of societal being that will fix all our problems, and I'm in NO way saying that's what you think, I'm just saying we gotta be careful not to expect too much.
Besides, there ARE problems with automation especially mixed with "100% unemployment" as well there are more ephemeral things you just can't automate. Innovation for example. You need the human element there, saying "OK we have totally automated this industry and we have full unemployment" means that industry has no way to innovate, iterate, and it's just ....stagnant.
For example, if we had fully automated the motor vehicle industry and had full unemployment during the original production run of the Model T in 1908 we sure wouldn't have low emission and electric Tesla cars now. That's over a century of iteration, innovation, trial and error, ENORMOUS financial risk taking, and experimentation all in hundreds of fields (often originally unrelated to the automotive industry) all done by humans working jobs.
How do you deal with politics in a nation with 100% unemployment being that "politician" is still a job? I'd love to be able to automate the political process but I don't see how.

(24-07-2017 06:07 PM)ImFred Wrote:  We need to stop embracing employment as a form of liberation and see it for what is: oppression.
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Um....What? I really am not sure how to respond to that. I mean......I have a job I genuinely enjoy and look forward to every day. I don't feel oppressed in the slightest. I'm fairly sure that the medical professional that has spent his life saving the lives of premature babies does not feel "oppressed" by his job.
Oppression has an actual definition and I don't see how a voluntary exchange of goods and services counts as oppression. I mean being paid an agreed upon wage in exchange for my labour doesn't fit that definition at all, like......the word doesn't apply at all as far as I can tell. Sure if I'm being forced against my will to work that's oppression. If I'm not being paid for my labour that's oppression. I could make the argument that being forced against my will to pay for someone else's labour or lack there of is oppression but...just having a job is not oppression logically or definitionally.

I'm legit confused by this, could you elaborate? Smile

(24-07-2017 06:07 PM)ImFred Wrote:  Trump politics has shown us that a paradigm shift is possible. A large segment of the American public has demonstrated a willingness to celebrate dishonesty and degeneracy as a positive. One year ago that was unimaginable.
People voted for and supported people who created internment camps for people based on their race. Ugenics received a great deal of support from Americans for decades. Weed was banned based on arguments put forth by the government that they knew were entirely fictitious and based largely on flagrant racism and falsified "studies".
If you think this kinda stuff with Trump is new or even the worst it's been your mistaken. Lies and dishonesty have been the coin of politics for millennia. This is nothing new, just the ever spinning wheel.


(24-07-2017 06:07 PM)ImFred Wrote:  I demand full liberation from the shackles of capitalism.
Um.....why?Huh

(24-07-2017 06:12 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  The republicunts are offering nothing except an ass-fucking for the middle and lower classes. Shouldn't be hard to beat that.
Ya, it shouldn't....but it was the Republicans, like Obama in his campaign, that actually reached out to the middle class. Bernie did too. Hilary didn't and it hurt her, which is why a large amount of working class voters who voted for Obama.... voted Trump.

(24-07-2017 06:12 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Although, I suspect our resident nazi fucktards will object to anything that doesn't make the rich richer.
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(24-07-2017 06:29 PM)ImFred Wrote:  Not interested in Trump supporters opinions or moving forward with them. I want them ridiculed, marginalized, and politically crippled. Some things need to be crushed, not bargained with.
So basically anyone who doesn't agree with you should have no political voice or recourse in their own country? Ya, that will surely end fuckin' well. Can you imagine the shit storm if the House majority leader came forward and said that about Hillary supporters? And he actually COULD do that in practice, they control the Executive branch, Congress, and the Senate.

The sword you wield in office will be wielded against you when you are not.

(25-07-2017 11:58 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Historically maybe, but things have changed. The country has become more partisan than ever.

Ok...first off that second sentence is just ridiculously not true given that states have not left the Union and people are not killing each other over political differences to the tune of hundreds of thousands which ....kinda has happened in America's history and all. Secondly, your first sentence is just an assertion. You actually have to wait and see if the trend actually changes. Things have changed that's true but we have zero idea if it's changed enough to break the trend.

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26-07-2017, 01:29 AM
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
(26-07-2017 12:36 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Um....What? I really am not sure how to respond to that. I mean......I have a job I genuinely enjoy and look forward to every day. I don't feel oppressed in the slightest.

That's you. Other people could easily feel differently even if they wouldn't use word oppression .

I guess for some work isn't something they look forward to but rather something they must do to live, hence oppression, even if different word should be used to describe this.

Quote:Oppression has an actual definition and I don't see how a voluntary exchange of goods and services counts as oppression. I mean being paid an agreed upon wage in exchange for my labour doesn't fit that definition at all, like......the word doesn't apply at all as far as I can tell.

It's voluntary only as far that no human force you - you just must work if you wan't to live (in Poland at least you won't get unemployment benefits for life). There's also may be issue of workers not having much choice but to stay in firm where owner is crooked and state not being interested in doing something to fix it, coupled with courts too ineffective to give justice to workers.

Quote:I'm legit confused by this, could you elaborate? Smile

It looks to me like echo of Marx theory about work alienating man - work became commodity which means that worker himself became commodity who is forced to sell himself for market wages, which wages barely cover cost of living.[...]Worker works not to satisfy his need of work but cause he must earn to live. [Leszek Kołakowski, Main Currents of Marxism: Its Rise, Growth and Dissolution Volume 1: The Founders*, p.134-135 of Polish 2009 edition]

Or to put it differently but at least somewhat in line with Marx - work is oppression cause it leave no place for enjoyment of life, cause it made you do things you don't enjoy just so you can live another day to go back to work doing things that you don't enjoy...

*Book available in English if you want to know more.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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26-07-2017, 07:08 AM
RE: Democrats to offer a "Better Deal"
(25-07-2017 08:14 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Wow. And Trump said in two weeks they'd have something which was "wondeful for all Americans" (healthcare).. even though they failed for 7 years.

He's just taking his time so we all don't overdose from too much winning.
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