Denying Physical Proof
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24-05-2012, 10:54 PM
Denying Physical Proof
Bear with me guys this is going to be a long one.

A Friend of mine and I were having a talk over gmail...i'm going to copy/paste the convo at the end of this...please read it and give me your thoughts...fyi i'm "me".

Ayame: well u asked why i dont like other religions..and my answer of it making the most sense to me isnt enough for you...so i ahve tobreak it all down ad explin...thus makes it complicatng
Sent at 6:44 AM on Friday


me: i'm looking for your logical reasoning behind not liking other religions, that can be a simple answer...but i'm looking for logic not "i feel i'm more right then them"


Ayame: well im not sure of what is logic to you
cause my logic is like...magic...and i think urs is hard core evidence...and i dont think i have hard coreevdenc of why i feel so strongly for it
oooh..i was thinking last nght...
So....you believ that man came from the big bang theaory..right?
oh my typing is awful..I'm going to try and make it better


me: no i believe that the universe was made in the big bang and that man evolved from single cell organisms because earth happened to be under the right conditions
and my definition of logic is the dictionary definition
the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.


Ayame: yeh..s everything we are is from the big bagtheory
bang*


me: No...the planets stars supernova's and things of that nature is from the big bang


Ayame: LOL bag theaor
y
.....ur too technical again...im trying to make u see that weather we evolved or not..it is all from he big bag theaory


me: No its not


Ayame: if the theory didnt happen none of us will be here
right?


me: Right...but the big bang and Evolution have no ties other then if it hadnt happened then earth wouldnt be in its current position


Ayame: yeh thats what I am trying to get too.....s Becase of the Big Bag theory......we exist beause i gave us the right Sun and habitual zone for the arth
fucking n
its bag theory now, deal with it ROFL
it*
sooo....I believe the same thing.
But..I believe that instead of the universe just..poofing..into existance.someone
i think the main thing..is that u and I have the same understanding on things..we jst call tem difrently
and, trying to understan your question,you want to understand why I call things differenly then, rigt?
Sent at 6:54 AM on Friday


me: Let me set the record straight...you think that poof the universe was just here, because god wanted it to be that way...and your saying thats the same thing as the big bang theory


Ayame: yes
because poof it happened to be
Sent at 6:56 AM on Friday


me: Then how can you explain the time difference? the bible says that the earth is 6000 years old...the big bang says 13 billion or some huge number like that
Sent at 6:58 AM on Friday


Ayame: rthe earth is 4.5 billion years old
according t science....
as far as the bible....i really dont care how accurate it is on dates because all daes are ucked up anyways..but for tickling ur rain..ima go goole dis


me: See? this is my problem...you dont care how accurate it is on dates but your so willing to accept that the bible is fact


Ayame: hang on...i havent said it was wrong yt
Sent at 7:02 AM on Friday


Ayame: I'm only finding 6k since creation of Adam
I can't find anything about before Adam
Sent at 7:07 AM on Friday


me: whereas science says what?
Sent at 7:08 AM on Friday


Ayame: im trying to look up how long has man existed in science termsnow
and by man, i mean a full intellectual not a cave man
cause thats when the bible begins


me: Homo Sapiens
Sent at 7:11 AM on Friday


me: 200,000 is when we finished evolving and 50,000 when we reached full intellectual maturity
Sent at 7:12 AM on Friday


Ayame: 10k is when thefirst hunter-gatheres are formed in their living societies......in "band societies"
6k ago..accordig to science is when militaries started up


me: we were talking Humans reaching intellectual maturity...which was 50,000
Sent at 7:18 AM on Friday


Ayame: yeh but talking could mean..ave man..cave men talked and sang...But cave men are not in the bible.


me: Why are they not in the bible? i thought adam was the FIRST human?


Ayame: 10k ago is whenthe band groups started which is what Adam would start
Sent at 7:19 AM on Friday


me: i thought adam was the first human...so why all the sudden do cave men (aka humans) not count nor appear in creation?


Ayame: because dam was not a cave man.
He was an intelligent man who could communicate withhis wife and they could plant and grow food


me: but he was the first "human"...there were "no other humans befor him"


Ayame: thats true


me: But we just proved its not


Ayame: well..accordin to the bible that e read
no we didnt


me: Humans...Homo Sapiens...cave men...are all the same thing...and if humans trace back to 50,000 BC...then how was adam the "First Human Ever"


Ayame: in ur teaory
in mine its that we started out as Adam
yes..im going to say what u dont wat to hear and already know...fossils were placedthre to let our minds wonder..and fo beautification perposes


me: Sweetie thats fact...we dont "theorize" that humans appeared 50,000 years ago...we Know for a fact...that the first humans date back to 200,000 BC


Ayame: as a fossil
doesnt mean they actually walked


me: you seriously believe that fossils are fake


Ayame: i dont unerstand what is the big dea if they wlked or didnt walk....they are dead either way and weare here
yes I do..because I believe that God made this planet for all his children so that we can admire it..which I do. I love mother Earth and all its beauty
Sent at 7:27 AM on Friday


me: So god...deliberately placed evidence that countermanded his existance...to beautify the planet...


Ayame: yup


me: So...you'd rather shun actual Evidence and physical proof and believe in a being that is more akin to an imaginary friend then an actual deity.


Ayame: As you know..Religion is a faith. There is going to be things tat are going to make u uestion it.....But what you chose to accept and not..is base on this Faith
I'm not shunning it..By all means Science...do what you do. You want to find me a dead body of Jesus...do it. I'm not stopping or condoning the act.
Sent at 7:30 AM on Friday


Ayame: I don't understand why you get flustered when I am accepting of Science..It would bedifferent If I was like...No science is thedevil, you ned to stop that kind of thinking and cience and religion should be seperate..and blah blah


me: but you just said that fossils are fake


Ayame: No.. said they are very mch real....But I just dont think that those bodies actally walked
They could have been the pre Adam genotypes?
or just as that...fossils
I don't know
Sent at 7:32 AM on Friday


me: right...neither of us knows...but your willing to trust an unknown deity more then evidence that is laying right in front of us...Physical proof rather then faith


Ayame: To mean there is no proof in bunch of old bones.
To me, they are just bones ofsomeone that kinda resambles a human


me: Then what can you say to explain cave drawings thousands of miles away from adam and Before adam even existed?


Ayame: Same answer as how the cave men bones got there
its beautiful ^_^


me: So god deliberately put it there


Ayame: Is that too simple for you? and you cn't graps it


me: It's illogical...how can you say that everything before 6000BC is fake and god just put it there...just cuz


Ayame: ooh hold that thought i got something that came up
Sent at 7:37 AM on Friday
Ayame: brb


me: Earliest cave paintings were dated to 32,000 years ago...Where the hell did the other 22,000 go
ugh okay

Shock And Awe Tactics-- The "application of massive or overwhelming force" to "disarm, incapacitate, or render the enemy impotent with as few casualties to ourselves and to noncombatants as possible"
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24-05-2012, 10:57 PM
RE: Denying Physical Proof
Holy crap thats alot longer then i thought...sorry for the long read but if you stick with it thanks and send me your thoughts.

Shock And Awe Tactics-- The "application of massive or overwhelming force" to "disarm, incapacitate, or render the enemy impotent with as few casualties to ourselves and to noncombatants as possible"
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24-05-2012, 11:29 PM
RE: Denying Physical Proof
oh trust me, I know all about people denying physical evidence, even atheists who will deny it... and the psych behind this is that they've invested their securities in the belief that they have. Whatever it may be, and so when physical evidence is brought up to contest with their securities they become very insecure. And insecure people are irrational. Now in a good deal of my debates I am overwhelmed with claims of evidence that I am often going to just choose the most important pieces. Because if you prove or disprove the biggest pieces of the puzzle it will disprove the smaller pieces of the puzzle to. And this is the step you should take. The time differential in the bible compared to science is compared by many christians as a small piece. Therefore even if you were to disprove that (which science has done) the bigger pieces would all still be there
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25-05-2012, 01:10 AM
RE: Denying Physical Proof
Can that guy not type properly? That's irrelevant but why is faith a good thing? It seems to be something that comes up in a lot of conversation. 'Well at least I have faith!' *yawn*

Don't get frustrated by it. Just let him search the information for himself. Maybe he'll be less ignorant towards the world. It's a pity some people are like that. I care for the belief in god but simply denying the evidence that's been agreed upon is disappointing.

Sapere aude! Have courage to use your own understanding!
Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way.


Enlightenment is liberating.
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25-05-2012, 01:13 AM (This post was last modified: 25-05-2012 01:19 AM by Jedah.)
RE: Denying Physical Proof
Ayame (definately a Japanese girl), learn to type proper English first, then check dictionary.com for definition of "logical".

How can you ask a person who cant even "type words logically" to "give logical argument" ?? Such attempt was basically illogical. Laughat

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- Oscar Wilde
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25-05-2012, 02:54 AM
RE: Denying Physical Proof
whoa whoa...calm your nips guys i want your personal thoughts on the arguement not the person, again she's a good friend so try to keep it civil.

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25-05-2012, 03:37 AM
RE: Denying Physical Proof
(25-05-2012 02:54 AM)Likos02 Wrote:  whoa whoa...calm your nips guys i want your personal thoughts on the arguement not the person, again she's a good friend so try to keep it civil.

Well...we r quite calm...aren't we? Huh

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25-05-2012, 03:40 AM
RE: Denying Physical Proof
i just love an excuse to say "calm your nips"

Shock And Awe Tactics-- The "application of massive or overwhelming force" to "disarm, incapacitate, or render the enemy impotent with as few casualties to ourselves and to noncombatants as possible"
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25-05-2012, 04:39 AM
RE: Denying Physical Proof
I think she doesn’t deny the physical proof.
Her hypothesis/conclusion just happens to be different with yours.
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25-05-2012, 04:46 AM
RE: Denying Physical Proof
'To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Why, even though it's clear that your friend will not be swayed by reason, are you still trying to reason? We all think it's silly that someone can be in such deep denial of evidence and dismiss it so easily for their unevidenced belief, but this friend isn't going to change just because you keep presenting more evidence.

I have family members that are just like this, and they're even proud about their ability to not consider changing their minds (they call it "conviction" as if that makes stubbornness more attractive). Unless you have a method for changing the way your friend thinks, it's just not going to work.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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