Depression that never ends?
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19-12-2012, 10:08 AM
RE: Depression that never ends?
(19-12-2012 09:55 AM)Leela Wrote:  
(19-12-2012 08:05 AM)FZUMedia Wrote:  I had many issues like this, I had extremely violent and suicidal thoughts for myself and others, occasionally I would act upon my violent desires, although now I am fully cured. The best thing you can do is be curious as to find about the causes of her depression and childhood experience; why they are the way they are. As well as encourage her to stay/go to a good talk therapist- you are but a stranger in the street trying to attempt heart surgery if you think you can 'cure' someone's depression. And understand, that cure is impossible- granted I am more peaceful, happy, productive now that I have been through therapy, but I am nowhere near as good as I could of been without my childhood trauma and terrible parents.

Expecting a psychopath or someone depressed to be 'cured' is like expecting a man with a missing arm to grow back an arm. It's not going to happen, but you can prevent further damage.
You make some good points but
1. I am no strager to her, she is a real life friend of 10 years. She told me all about herself and about all trauma. I probably know her better than her own parents do. And I can't do more than listen to her and tell her to keep trying new medicines, and keep going to therapy and so on. I do understand that I can't cure her but I also understand her feeling of being hopeless by now, noone was able to help her in such a long time.
2. You can't seriously put a psychopath and a depressed person on the same page. I used to be deeply clinical depressed and I am not anymore. My traumata and all the other issues have not vanished, but I learnt to cope and to live mostly without depression. And when I findmyself sliding into the "dark" I know tools to snap myself out of it. There is a way out for depressed people, even if it is difficult. There is no way out for psychopaths afaik.



fstratzero: We aren't in the states. She is in Germany (I moved away). Germany has a very advanced health system. Either she had bad luck and never met a therapist or psychiatrist who understood her deep enough, or she, like many other people, just doesn't get anything out of therapy (me included). I am just really stunned that no medicine works or ever did.
Prevention is better than cure. if you are finding yourself in situations were you need to 'cure' yourself in the moment, you are doing something fundamentally wrong. It's the same as those that are addicted to smoking, the only cure I know of is analysis of why the person is doing self destructive things to begin with- I don't think you can 'will' your way out of smoking/depression for any sustained period of time.

From what you have said, it doesn't sound like you understand this.
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19-12-2012, 10:23 AM
RE: Depression that never ends?
yes prevention is better than cure, but some things are unavoidable > like triggers of depression or flashbacks.
And yes, you can "will" yourself out of it. By working on your trauma or other problems you become able to live with it. Therapy helps some people, others work it out on their own. Educate yourself before spreading half truths.

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19-12-2012, 10:48 AM
RE: Depression that never ends?
(19-12-2012 10:23 AM)Leela Wrote:  yes prevention is better than cure, but some things are unavoidable > like triggers of depression or flashbacks.
And yes, you can "will" yourself out of it. By working on your trauma or other problems you become able to live with it. Therapy helps some people, others work it out on their own. Educate yourself before spreading half truths.


Flashbacks or caution from previous trauma is a good thing. It's like an emotional version of your immune system, when you have a bad experience, your body is telling you not to do it again. If you keep finding yourself in negative situations, you aren't listening to your emotional defences, you are fighting against your immune system since your brain is telling you to stop w/e you are doing for your own protection.

For example, if someone is a survivor of a plane crash, you would understand and expect that person to never want to go on a plane again. If he/she didn't experience any fear of planes after that, it would be kind of concerning and dysfunctional really.

You can't 'will' yourself otherwise (I think you misunderstand me), I mean recovery comes with calmness and natural curiosity not with a rocky montage.
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19-12-2012, 10:57 AM
RE: Depression that never ends?
ok I might really misunderstand you with the willing ...
Sure I can't overcome something traumatic within a day or two.
But I can deal with it and get over it without a doctor

And let me take your planecrash. So I am a surviver of a planecrash and only seeing a plane or a picture of it will give me the worst flashback. I can't avoid seeing planes, they are on pictures, in movies, over our heads, simply everywhere. My "mental immunesystem" can scream at me as much as it wants, I will be unable to avoid seeing planes. So rather than avoiding seeing planes I need to get clear with what happened that day in the plane, I need to play every possible scenario through in my head to see if I could have changed what happened (so I don't feel guilty for anything), and once I am done with that I will have to look at a plane on purpose to check if it works now, because obviously I can avoid getting on a plane but not seeing one, and living with constant flashbacks everyday would be horrible. Finding ways to cope, that is what I said earlier.

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19-12-2012, 11:52 AM
RE: Depression that never ends?
(19-12-2012 10:57 AM)Leela Wrote:  ok I might really misunderstand you with the willing ...
Sure I can't overcome something traumatic within a day or two.
But I can deal with it and get over it without a doctor

And let me take your planecrash. So I am a surviver of a planecrash and only seeing a plane or a picture of it will give me the worst flashback. I can't avoid seeing planes, they are on pictures, in movies, over our heads, simply everywhere. My "mental immunesystem" can scream at me as much as it wants, I will be unable to avoid seeing planes. So rather than avoiding seeing planes I need to get clear with what happened that day in the plane, I need to play every possible scenario through in my head to see if I could have changed what happened (so I don't feel guilty for anything), and once I am done with that I will have to look at a plane on purpose to check if it works now, because obviously I can avoid getting on a plane but not seeing one, and living with constant flashbacks everyday would be horrible. Finding ways to cope, that is what I said earlier.
I agree with pretty much everything you have said. I am just saying, your fight or flight responses are probably correct, it's worth respecting them, rather than trying to fight against them.
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19-12-2012, 11:54 AM
RE: Depression that never ends?
Leela, do you know if she's tried Electro-Convulsive Therapy (ECT)? More and more, this old practice, which was formerly seen as barbaric, is making a comeback and patients are getting good results. I'd be willing to do this myself, but so far I haven't found a doctor who thinks I'm that bad off, even though I might disagree.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroconvulsive_therapy

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19-12-2012, 12:03 PM
RE: Depression that never ends?
I don't think she is doomed forever for depression. The brain can be reshaped and healed- it is not a permanent entity, and everyday the hope grows stronger. Science is amazing and discoveries are getting better and better. Even in the last 10 years we know leaps and bounds more than ever, so the next 10 years will be even more exciting. She should keep trying.

Depression is a frustrating thing, an it seems there are a lot of walls, but not every path is a dead end. Regrouping and trying again is worth it.
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19-12-2012, 12:04 PM
RE: Depression that never ends?
(19-12-2012 12:03 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  I don't think she is doomed forever for depression. The brain can be reshaped and healed- it is not a permanent entity, and everyday the hope grows stronger. Science is amazing and discoveries are getting better and better. Even in the last 10 years we know leaps and bounds more than ever, so the next 10 years will be even more exciting. She should keep trying.

Depression is a frustrating thing, an it seems there are a lot of walls, but not every path is a dead end. Regrouping and trying again is worth it.
The brain is an organ, the damage can not be 'fully recovered' any more than the smoker can grow a brand new set of lungs- sure stopping smoking can improve your lungs from what they would be, but it's not good as new.
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19-12-2012, 12:38 PM
RE: Depression that never ends?
(19-12-2012 12:04 PM)FZUMedia Wrote:  
(19-12-2012 12:03 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  I don't think she is doomed forever for depression. The brain can be reshaped and healed- it is not a permanent entity, and everyday the hope grows stronger. Science is amazing and discoveries are getting better and better. Even in the last 10 years we know leaps and bounds more than ever, so the next 10 years will be even more exciting. She should keep trying.

Depression is a frustrating thing, an it seems there are a lot of walls, but not every path is a dead end. Regrouping and trying again is worth it.
The brain is an organ, the damage can not be 'fully recovered' any more than the smoker can grow a brand new set of lungs- sure stopping smoking can improve your lungs from what they would be, but it's not good as new.
And there is a huge, massive difference between being depressed chronically vs occasionally. Duh.
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19-12-2012, 12:51 PM
RE: Depression that never ends?
I can't imagine such a long-lasting deep depression. I go through it in waves some that roll in and out slowly and some that just knock me on my ass. Generally I am able to keep in the back of my head that it will pass and if it doesn't, it's back on the meds for me.
I had the same impression that perhaps the stress of work and everyday life is what is too hard for her to handle since she did get better when those things weren't there (in the hospital). Most of us don't have the luxury of not working and dealing with daily stuff though. Hope she can find some sort of relief.

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