Designed/Exists?
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10-10-2014, 11:12 PM
Designed/Exists?
Thought this belonged here instead of atheism/theism. ... Could be wrong.
Anyway, I've been arguing on youtube <waits for chours of ewwws and that's not arguing comments to subside> as I'm not really up to the challenge here. So I've seen several times the argument that god designed everything that exists. Does this mean, then, that 'designed' and 'exists' are synonyms? That the phrase 'everything that exists is designed' is equivalent to 'everything that exists, exists'?
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10-10-2014, 11:20 PM
RE: Designed/Exists?
Designed implies created by an intelligence
Existing is just that: existing. It implies nothing.

Not at all synonymous.
Not even close
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10-10-2014, 11:35 PM
RE: Designed/Exists?
(10-10-2014 11:12 PM)OddGamer Wrote:  I've been arguing on youtube

Well there is your problem then. lol. OK, I just had to say it.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
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11-10-2014, 02:36 AM
RE: Designed/Exists?
Exists is an observation. Design is an assumption.

Atheism is the only way to truly be free from sin.
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11-10-2014, 06:38 AM
RE: Designed/Exists?
If god designed everything that exists then everything is designed so how can you determine design since you have nothing that is not designed to contrast it with?

Why do I sound like a kid getting high for the first time?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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11-10-2014, 07:59 PM
RE: Designed/Exists?
(11-10-2014 06:38 AM)unfogged Wrote:  If god designed everything that exists then ...
If god designed everything that exists then that means god doesn't exist. It would be impossible for the god to design itself prior to its own existence.
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12-10-2014, 06:56 AM
RE: Designed/Exists?
(11-10-2014 07:59 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(11-10-2014 06:38 AM)unfogged Wrote:  If god designed everything that exists then ...
If god designed everything that exists then that means god doesn't exist. It would be impossible for the god to design itself prior to its own existence.

OK, if god designed everything that began to exist then....
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Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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12-10-2014, 12:04 PM (This post was last modified: 12-10-2014 12:14 PM by Tartarus Sauce.)
RE: Designed/Exists?
No, the two are not synonymous in this context. Designed would just be a universally applied modifier to the state of being known as "existence." It's equivalent to saying "all frogs are animals." One is encompassed within the other conditional in all instances, but they don't mean the same thing.

Of course, it's never actually been proven that the universe is designed. David Hume refuted this best; in order to determine design we must have previous knowledge of what design looks like. We recognize human design because we understand what types of qualities will be exhibited by an artifact forged by our own species. In order to recognize design on a higher level, such as a designed universe, we would need a reference for comparison, such as another universe which is proven to be designed. However, since this is the only universe we know of, we have no comparison point to attach a "designed" marker to, hence we have no way of recognizing what a higher level of design would look like in this universe.

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