Destroy a faith in one sentence
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29-10-2014, 08:38 AM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(16-10-2014 07:00 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  I thought it would be good to list all the facts that can be expressed in a single sentence and which upon hearing can lead to the eventual destruction of someone's faith.

Or you can think of this as a floor-falling-out-of-an-elevator pitch to achieve a death bed deconversion. They have just long enough to think "Bugger that!" before they go splat into the ground.

Feel feel to add your own or improve or correct my ones.
  • None of the written accounts of Jesus are contemporaneous.
  • None of the books in the New Testament can agree on what happened during Jesus's resurrection.
  • The Bible lists the bat alongside other unclean birds (Leviticus 11:13-19)
  • The Bible mentions insects with four legs (Leviticus 11:20-23)
  • I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. (Timothy 2:12)

Oh that's easy.

"Fuckoff with your bullshit."

Bowing

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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29-10-2014, 09:17 AM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
"If we wish to pursue this question courageously we must of course ask the next question: Where did God come from? If we decide this an unanswerable question why not save a step and conclude that the origin of the universe is an unanswerable question? Or, if we say that God always existed why not save a step and conclude that the universe already existed?"



Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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29-10-2014, 01:05 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(29-10-2014 09:17 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  "If we wish to pursue this question courageously we must of course ask the next question: Where did God come from? If we decide this an unanswerable question why not save a step and conclude that the origin of the universe is an unanswerable question? Or, if we say that God always existed why not save a step and conclude that the universe already existed?"



If time is attached to light (and matter) then God outside this universe IS without any linear time. God was there. Can you conceive of a dimension where there is no time?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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29-10-2014, 01:06 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(28-10-2014 08:37 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(28-10-2014 02:25 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  No. I'm talking about it not being "an appeal to popularity" or "majority fallacy" to say the truth--most people who've ever lived believe in (at least one) god. Further, if you tell me it's a "god gene" you're saying you are fighting your genetics, or are abnormally developed. Blush

I wasn't talking about an appeal to popularity, either. You cited five billion believers. Christianity doesn't even have three. You're including Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and Scientologists in your lump of evidence for theism. The problem is, over half of the are "evidence" of different gods.

Lumped together, they're just evidence that people are willing to believe in nonfalsifiable things. No one of those groups comprises close to 50% of the group. Therefore, each group believes the majority of the others are wrong. What is this even proving other than "people are credulous"?

What is it that stimulates such universal credulity in this instance? How does this "God delusion" work? I'm not knocking your viewpoint, I'm open.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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29-10-2014, 01:35 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(29-10-2014 01:05 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If time is attached to light (and matter) then God outside this universe IS without any linear time. God was there. Can you conceive of a dimension where there is no time?

We have no reason whatsoever to believe that anything can exist outside of a universe and without time.

Physicists talk about the arrow of time. Time is asymmetric in that it can only go one way. This is because entropy increases globally over time. Assuming the existence of anything (such as a god) that is not subject to the laws of thermodynamics and consequently the ravages of time is pure fantasy and has no bearing on reality. This is because there is absolutely nothing in the observable universe that we can point to and describe as being in any way similar.
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29-10-2014, 01:52 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(29-10-2014 01:06 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(28-10-2014 08:37 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I wasn't talking about an appeal to popularity, either. You cited five billion believers. Christianity doesn't even have three. You're including Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and Scientologists in your lump of evidence for theism. The problem is, over half of the are "evidence" of different gods.

Lumped together, they're just evidence that people are willing to believe in nonfalsifiable things. No one of those groups comprises close to 50% of the group. Therefore, each group believes the majority of the others are wrong. What is this even proving other than "people are credulous"?

What is it that stimulates such universal credulity in this instance? How does this "God delusion" work? I'm not knocking your viewpoint, I'm open.

Whole books (many of them) have been written on this subject, so I'm not likely to dispose of it in a single internet post, but two things come immediately to mind:

1. Primitive people witnessed powerful forces in nature, and lacking the understanding of their causes, postulated gods.

2. People have always tried to control other people, and religion is a great way to accomplish this. Instill fear in them, and then make them believe that you (and only you) can protect them. And brainwashing and indoctrinating people from a young age is a great way to perpetuate it.
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29-10-2014, 04:03 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(29-10-2014 01:05 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Can you conceive of a dimension where there is no time?

I can't but apparently there's a shitload of naive fuckers that do. As soon as you say immortality or eternal life or eternity you negate time. You are outside of time. Like by definition.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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29-10-2014, 05:36 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(29-10-2014 01:05 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(29-10-2014 09:17 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  "If we wish to pursue this question courageously we must of course ask the next question: Where did God come from? If we decide this an unanswerable question why not save a step and conclude that the origin of the universe is an unanswerable question? Or, if we say that God always existed why not save a step and conclude that the universe already existed?"



If time is attached to light (and matter) then God outside this universe IS without any linear time. God was there. Can you conceive of a dimension where there is no time?

So why not save a step and conclude that the universe/multiverse exists beyond the linear time we experience? Why not conclude that the universe was always there?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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02-11-2014, 12:27 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(29-10-2014 05:36 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  
(29-10-2014 01:05 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  If time is attached to light (and matter) then God outside this universe IS without any linear time. God was there. Can you conceive of a dimension where there is no time?

So why not save a step and conclude that the universe/multiverse exists beyond the linear time we experience? Why not conclude that the universe was always there?

Because the universe follows rules. It's not omnipotent.

Truth seeker.
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02-11-2014, 12:48 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(16-10-2014 07:00 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  I thought it would be good to list all the facts that can be expressed in a single sentence and which upon hearing can lead to the eventual destruction of someone's faith.

Or you can think of this as a floor-falling-out-of-an-elevator pitch to achieve a death bed deconversion. They have just long enough to think "Bugger that!" before they go splat into the ground.

Feel feel to add your own or improve or correct my ones.
  • None of the written accounts of Jesus are contemporaneous.
  • None of the books in the New Testament can agree on what happened during Jesus's resurrection.
  • The Bible lists the bat alongside other unclean birds (Leviticus 11:13-19)
  • The Bible mentions insects with four legs (Leviticus 11:20-23)
  • I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. (Timothy 2:12)

I didn't read past the first post, so if this is already addressed my apologies. I was compelled to address the OP.

This is one of the haughtiest posts iv ever seen. WHY would any mature person WANT to destroy a faith in anything decent?

And the OP is SO WRONG in your points, that you are showing GROSS IGNORANCE of the subject. I prefer charging you with ignorance of the subject to charging you with intentional deception.

Jesus Christ is the best documented ancient historical figure in all of history, from His time back. The manuscripts are CENTURIES more contemporaneous to the life of Christ than anything YOU can get for Alexander the great.

What a hateful OP... absolutely biased and INCORRECT... nothing but propaganda and piss poor propaganda at that.
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