Destroy a faith in one sentence
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02-11-2014, 01:57 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(02-11-2014 01:52 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  I see she is being awfully quiet hoping her defenders will save her ass...

And you are being awfully quiet about my response and where to find the information I was referring to.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid677060

Now if you go up against some of the Bible scholars on this site and win convincingly then I will re-evaluate what I previously said.

Because unlike you, I actually read the evidence presented by others and don't just look for articles containing relevant words and piece them together to say something totally different that I want to believe.
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02-11-2014, 02:03 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(02-11-2014 01:56 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 01:52 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Do I give one shit what you think ?? Not 1 Smile

She makes the claim theres no evidence for Christ? She is either completely ignorant of the subject or intentionally deceiving. There is no 3rd option. I prefer to think she is just ignorant of the subject.

I see she is being awfully quiet hoping her defenders will save her ass... but its not going to happen. Let her explain why she accepts inferior documentation for Alexander yet believes he existed.

I'm not posting shit for evidence until she can show me she has any documentation AT ALL for alexander. I cant stand lazy and inaccurate so called scholarship... its nothing but parroted propaganda.

She has nothing to defend. You made a claim that you haven't backed up. Until you do, she SHOULD remain quiet because there is nothing to defend against. That's how it works genius.

Oh, and by the way, you need to learn what contemporary means. "Centuries more contemporaneous" makes no sense. Speaking of ignorance.

She does now:

1) Josephus (A.D. 37 - c. A.D. 100)

2) Tacitus (c. A.D. 55 - c. A.D. 117)

3) Pliny the Younger (c. 62 - c. 113)

4) Suetonius (c. A.D. 69 - c. A.D. 140)

5) Julius Africanus (c. 160 - c. 240)

6) Lucian (mid-2nd century)

7) Galen (c.150; De pulsuum differentiis 2.4; 3.3)

8) Celsus (True Discourse, c.170).

9) Mara Bar Serapion (pre-200?)

10) Talmudic References( written after 300 CE, but some refs probably go back to eyewitnesses, and there are SEVERAL of these)


Now give me all your documentation for Alexander....
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02-11-2014, 02:06 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(02-11-2014 01:56 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 01:49 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  Nothing funnier than an angry troll that's lost it Smile

Heres 6 sources you little parrot or propaganda... now match it with 6 for alexander that are closer to his lifetime than the evidence for Christ.

Extrabiblical sources proving Jesus lived... 6 so far :



Suetonius (c. A.D. 69 - c. A.D. 140)

Not even born until more than three decades after the alleged events.

Quote:Julius Africanus

Born about 180 CE, a century and a half after the alleged events.

Quote:Tacitus Roman historian
Quote:
"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators

He's talking about Christians, not Jesus.

Quote:Pliny
Quote:
"They (the Christians) were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up;

He's talking about Christians, not Jesus.

Quote:Lucian
Quote:
"The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. . . . You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property."

He's talking about Christians, not Jesus.

Quote:http://www.facingthechallenge.org/josephus.php

Modern scholarship has largely acknowledged the authenticity of the reference in Book 20, Chapter 9, 1 of the Antiquities to "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James" [12] and considers it as having the highest level of authenticity among the references of Josephus to Christianity.[13][1][2][14][15][16]

In his writings, Josephus mentions the Pharisees, the Sadducees, and the Herodians. He mentions Caiaphas, Pontius Pilate, John the Baptist, Jesus (twice) and James the brother of Jesus. He also mentions the Essenes - the strict religious sect within Judaism that founded the Qumran community, where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found. In fact, Josephus says that he spent some time with the Essenes.

From book 18 of the Antiquities, 63-64:



Quote:
About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed it is lawful to call him a man, for he was a performer of wonderful deeds, a teacher of such men as are happy to accept the truth. He won over many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the leading men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those who had loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again on the third day, as the prophets of God had foretold these and ten thousand other wonders about him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct to this day.'

"However, critics point out that Josephus wrote about a number of people who went by the name Jesus, Yeshua or Joshua, and also speculate that Josephus may have considered James a fraternal brother rather than a sibling." Wikipedia

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-11-2014, 02:11 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(02-11-2014 02:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  .

Lets not make moronic statements before you see how close to contemporary the documentation for Alexander is Wink

The documentation for Christ extends to approximately 10 years after his crucifixion and resurrection. The documentation for Alexander is 1500 years removed from the life of Alexander.

Lets not hold to double standards here and do HONEST scholarly work.
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02-11-2014, 02:13 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(02-11-2014 01:57 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 01:52 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  I see she is being awfully quiet hoping her defenders will save her ass...

And you are being awfully quiet about my response and where to find the information I was referring to.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid677060

Now if you go up against some of the Bible scholars on this site and win convincingly then I will re-evaluate what I previously said.

Because unlike you, I actually read the evidence presented by others and don't just look for articles containing relevant words and piece them together to say something totally different that I want to believe.

You can make the claim you can do your own work... and stop with the lazy parroting of bullshit that simply isn't true... Where is your documentation for Alexander?
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02-11-2014, 02:15 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(02-11-2014 02:11 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 02:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  .

Lets not make moronic statements before you see how close to contemporary the documentation for Alexander is Wink

The documentation for Christ extends to approximately 10 years after his crucifixion and resurrection. The documentation for Alexander is 1500 years removed from the life of Alexander.

Lets not hold to double standards here and do HONEST scholarly work.

If you would follow the link I provided, you will see that your 1500 years is wildly incorrect.

And there is much more than one decade separating the references from the alleged events of Jesus' life.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-11-2014, 02:18 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(02-11-2014 02:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 02:11 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Lets not make moronic statements before you see how close to contemporary the documentation for Alexander is Wink

The documentation for Christ extends to approximately 10 years after his crucifixion and resurrection. The documentation for Alexander is 1500 years removed from the life of Alexander.

Lets not hold to double standards here and do HONEST scholarly work.

If you would follow the link I provided, you will see that your 1500 years is wildly incorrect.

And there is much more than one decade separating the references from the alleged events of Jesus' life.

If youre too lazy to post quotes, im not clicking your links.

And youre WILDLY wrong... you wont find ANY source of documentation for Alexander before the 10th century AD.

And PROVE it is more removed then a decade from the life of Christ... youre wrong again.... PROVE your statements
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02-11-2014, 02:22 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
This little turd is giving me flashbacks.

He's like our ol' buddy Drich.

Except dumber.

... this is my signature!
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02-11-2014, 02:26 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2014 02:32 PM by Wolfbitn.)
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(02-11-2014 02:22 PM)cjlr Wrote:  This little turd is giving me flashbacks.

He's like our ol' buddy Drich.

Except dumber.

Dumber? Moi? And you cant produce evidence for Christ OR Alexander? You cant debunk anything with a credible source? Let me show you who is dumb... everyone saying Alexander has documentation closer to contemporaneous than Christ... THIS is the earliest documentation for Alexander.:

Diodorus Siculus (1st c. BCE) Locatted at Naples, Biblioteca Nazionale, this is the OLDEST manuscript and dates to the 10th century.

Quintus Curtius Rufus (1st c. CE) Oldest manuscript dates to the 11th century

So yes, you are 1500 years removed from Alexander with his sources.

Our earliest gospel of mark dates to the mid 1st century, or approximately 10 years after the crucifixion of Christ since it is estimated He was born roughly 6 AD.
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02-11-2014, 02:33 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(02-11-2014 02:18 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  If youre too lazy to post quotes, im not clicking your links.

And that's how you dismiss evidence. Either that or say that they back up exactly what you are saying when they don't.

And then when someone comes along and does quote something for your benefit you resort to the usual tactic of making it look like the usual caveats in scientific research means there's lots of doubt when there isn't

e.g.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid677006
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