Destroy a faith in one sentence
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02-11-2014, 03:53 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(02-11-2014 03:48 PM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 03:44 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Translated, this means you know Alexander's documentation cant touch the documentation for Christ... yet you believe in Alexander I take it?

No, I don't "believe in" him. I accept that there is evidence that a man known as Alexander the Great existed. I am willing to change this if new evidence comes to light that contravenes this.

I certainly don't worship him as a god, or ascribe powers to him that have no evidence to back them up.

He said he was born of a god... so where is his historical evidence? Do you believe Alexander existed even though he claimed to be descended from a god? Or do you not believe he existed?
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02-11-2014, 03:56 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(02-11-2014 03:53 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 03:48 PM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  No, I don't "believe in" him. I accept that there is evidence that a man known as Alexander the Great existed. I am willing to change this if new evidence comes to light that contravenes this.

I certainly don't worship him as a god, or ascribe powers to him that have no evidence to back them up.

He said he was born of a god... so where is his historical evidence? Do you believe Alexander existed even though he claimed to be descended from a god? Or do you not believe he existed?

I don't think there is anyone here who believes he was 'born of a god'.

And did Alexander claim that or was it said about him by others?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-11-2014, 03:57 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(02-11-2014 03:56 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 03:53 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  He said he was born of a god... so where is his historical evidence? Do you believe Alexander existed even though he claimed to be descended from a god? Or do you not believe he existed?

I don't think there is anyone here who believes he was 'born of a god'.

And did Alexander claim that or was it said about him by others?

Do you believe Alexander the great existed? If so why?
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02-11-2014, 03:59 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(02-11-2014 03:53 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  He said he was born of a god... so where is his historical evidence? Do you believe Alexander existed even though he claimed to be descended from a god? Or do you not believe he existed?

There is no evidence he was "born of a god".

I've already told you belief is not a factor when it comes to my historical acceptance of the existence of Alexander the Great.

Hate the belief, love the believer.
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02-11-2014, 04:00 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(02-11-2014 03:59 PM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 03:53 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  He said he was born of a god... so where is his historical evidence? Do you believe Alexander existed even though he claimed to be descended from a god? Or do you not believe he existed?

There is no evidence he was "born of a god".

I've already told you belief is not a factor when it comes to my historical acceptance of the existence of Alexander the Great.

So youre saying you accept it as fact he existed as a historical figure or not? Based on what?
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02-11-2014, 04:01 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(02-11-2014 04:00 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 03:59 PM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  There is no evidence he was "born of a god".

I've already told you belief is not a factor when it comes to my historical acceptance of the existence of Alexander the Great.

So youre saying you accept it as fact he existed as a historical figure or not? Based on what?

I've already explained it. try reading what I post.

Hate the belief, love the believer.
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02-11-2014, 04:03 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(02-11-2014 04:01 PM)Elder Cunningham Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 04:00 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  So youre saying you accept it as fact he existed as a historical figure or not? Based on what?

I've already explained it. try reading what I post.

You cant make yourself clear? Why? Do you BELIEVE that he lived as historical figure or not? Tell me WHY you do or WHY you don't and stop playing games. I have NO problem making it clear what I believe, you cant?
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02-11-2014, 04:04 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(02-11-2014 03:57 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 03:56 PM)Chas Wrote:  I don't think there is anyone here who believes he was 'born of a god'.

And did Alexander claim that or was it said about him by others?

Do you believe Alexander the great existed? If so why?

Read the fucking references, you dolt.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-11-2014, 04:06 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(02-11-2014 04:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 03:57 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  Do you believe Alexander the great existed? If so why?

Read the fucking references, you dolt.

Im NOT clicking links if you cant provide quotes... and telling me whether or not you believe Alexander LIVED as a REAL historical figure or not, has nothing to do with any references... DO you believe he existed, yes or no?
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02-11-2014, 04:09 PM
RE: Destroy a faith in one sentence
(02-11-2014 03:50 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  
(02-11-2014 03:39 PM)cjlr Wrote:  If fragments are sufficient evidence, would you care to comment on the existence of fragments of text regarding Alexander?

Arrian, Plutarch, Diodorus and others explicitly cite earlier authors such as Cleitarchus, Ptolemy, and Aristobulus - the latter two contemporaries of Alexander - and, more importantly, actual fragments of their works do survive.

Either you don't understand honest historiography or you just don't give a fuck.

I'd bet on the latter, but I'm also leaning towards both.

So you say... Arrian wrote more than 500 years AFTER Alexander...

Bro, do you even math? Arrian died ~160 CE. Alexander died ~323 BCE. By no possible arithmetic is that "more than 500".
(you furthermore accept Alexander's existence implicitly in that very sentence; you really aren't trying, are you?)

Anyway, I note that now you're accepting a lifetime date for Arrian, instead of the manuscript date you insisted on earlier in this very thread.

(02-11-2014 03:50 PM)Wolfbitn Wrote:  And only a few fragments exist. Show me one mentioning alexander specifically in the original manuscript fragments.

You furthermore concede the existence of fragments.

See, among many competent sources, Heckel's The Conquests of Alexander the Great, or even better, Hammond's Sources for Alexander the Great: An Analysis of Plutarch's 'Life' and Arrian's 'Anabasis Alexandrou'. Both refer explicitly to surviving fragments and excerpts of contemporaneous writings to Alexander himself (including Ptolemy, Aristobulus, Callisthenes, Cleitarchus, Nearchus, and more).

But why do I suspect that this is lost on you? You evidently have no interest whatsoever in either proper methods or even the remotest degree of intellectual honesty.

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