Determinism is now a religion.
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21-02-2014, 11:23 PM
RE: Determinism is now a religion.
(21-02-2014 11:11 PM)donotwant Wrote:  Small things do have effect on big things.

Yes but not necessarily such that determinism is everywhere false and that is what you would need to support GMs strong conclusion.
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21-02-2014, 11:26 PM
RE: Determinism is now a religion.
(21-02-2014 11:18 PM)Chippy Wrote:  
(21-02-2014 11:07 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Not at all. If it's all just probabilistic then statistics will show you the way. Science is preserved as being the 95% confidence interval, and all is right with the world.

That conclusion doesn't mean that is correct or even the best theory. The underdetermination of theory by evidence is a well-known issue/position in the philosophy of science. Science can be "preserved" by any number of competing theories.

That's some crazy shit right there, brother. Thanks! Thumbsup

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
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21-02-2014, 11:26 PM
RE: Determinism is now a religion.
(21-02-2014 11:13 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The violation of Bell's inequality has been observed empirically on multiple macroscopic scales.

Even so, how is determinism everywhere else invalidated?
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21-02-2014, 11:38 PM
RE: Determinism is now a religion.
(21-02-2014 11:26 PM)Chippy Wrote:  
(21-02-2014 11:13 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  The violation of Bell's inequality has been observed empirically on multiple macroscopic scales.

Even so, how is determinism everywhere else invalidated?

It's not invalidated. It's redefined. Statistically and shit. Tongue

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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21-02-2014, 11:40 PM
RE: Determinism is now a religion.
(21-02-2014 11:38 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(21-02-2014 11:26 PM)Chippy Wrote:  Even so, how is determinism everywhere else invalidated?

It's not invalidated. It's redefined. Statistically and shit. Tongue

That's interesting. I'll have to do some reading on the matter.
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22-02-2014, 12:15 AM
RE: Determinism is now a religion.
Determinism is naive.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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22-02-2014, 01:52 AM
RE: Determinism is now a religion.
(22-02-2014 12:15 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Determinism is naive.

I knew you were going to say that.

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22-02-2014, 03:43 AM
RE: Determinism is now a religion.
We don't know for sure yet whether the quantum world really is random or whether we just do not yet have the necessary technology to observe at a small enough scale.

But then arguing against a pure deterministic world is irrelevant anyway. If the chance of something happening is so small as to be negligible, such as all the air in the room congregating into a corner long enough to suffocate you, then the chance of it happening is irrelevant. The movement of molecules in the air is random but because there are so many of them we can predict the results.

Science only works because experiments are reproducible and ignores anything that has a negligible chance of occurring.
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22-02-2014, 05:11 AM
RE: Determinism is now a religion.
Deepak Chopra would love this topic Tongue

The real gospel: Jesus went rogue and preached love instead of genocide. God got angry and went old testament style on Jesus's ass, setting him up to be tortured and killed. The End.
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22-02-2014, 11:38 AM
RE: Determinism is now a religion.
(22-02-2014 03:43 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  We don't know for sure yet whether the quantum world really is random or whether we just do not yet have the necessary technology to observe at a small enough scale.

In the course the instructor makes an argument for intrinsic randomness in a device independent manner and that it's not a limitation of our measurement capability. He claims that the argument represents the view of the vast majority of physicists.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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