Deus vult?
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15-01-2017, 12:11 AM
RE: Deus vult?
I'd be concerned over anybody quoting 'Deus Vult' without context. Unless I'm mistaken, it's Latin for 'God wills it', and was supposedly the rallying cry at the council that brainstormed the first Holy Crusade. So the term is most historically tied to religious and cultural genocide, and as the rally cry of the perpetrators. In essence, it's old-school religious hate speech; specifically because of it's historical anti-Muslim context.

I don't like Islam either, but they're hating Islam the wrong way. Which is to be expected, as doing it the right way equally damns all faiths, not just the ones they don't belong to.


EDIT: I was right.

Deus vult (Classical Latin for "God wills it") was the cry of the people at the declaration of the First Crusade by Pope Urban II at the Council of Clermont in 1095 when the Byzantine Empire requested help in defense from the Seljuk invasion of Anatolia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_vult

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15-01-2017, 12:50 AM
RE: Deus vult?
(15-01-2017 12:11 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I'd be concerned over anybody quoting 'Deus Vult' without context. Unless I'm mistaken, it's Latin for 'God wills it', and was supposedly the rallying cry at the council that brainstormed the first Holy Crusade. So the term is most historically tied to religious and cultural genocide, and as the rally cry of the perpetrators. In essence, it's old-school religious hate speech; specifically because of it's historical anti-Muslim context.

I don't like Islam either, but they're hating Islam the wrong way. Which is to be expected, as doing it the right way equally damns all faiths, not just the ones they don't belong to.


EDIT: I was right.

Deus vult (Classical Latin for "God wills it") was the cry of the people at the declaration of the First Crusade by Pope Urban II at the Council of Clermont in 1095 when the Byzantine Empire requested help in defense from the Seljuk invasion of Anatolia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_vult

Anatolia would be modern Turkey. That's the country buying most of the oil ISIS is currently making their profits from robbing. That's our ally and home to one of our major Air Force Bases in the region. There's no way we're unaware of the oil/ISIS thing. So it's on purpose.

I got literal chills, when I read that phrase. I scrolled quickly down to see if anyone had posted out the actual context of the phrase; thank you for beating me to it, EK.

This is really dangerous, if they represent any sort of numbers in the USA. We have been pushed hard to the right by the same factors that have spawned guys like bin Laden in the Muslim world: an external threat (9/11, etc) by a "wrong/evil" people, coupled with a sense that things are going too liberally, socially, requiring blood to make the country "get right with Jehovah Allah God" in the eyes of the fundamentalist elements.

"Deus vult" and its support of the principle of Crusading was--just as today--about using the Holy Land as a premise for attacking countries/lands/peoples that controlled needed pipeline and trade routes, using religion as a pretext for the foot-soldiers and supporters, even though for the leaders it was always about economics. But the fanaticism of the people driving and populating the military campaigns led to the "we are good, even while we invade the Evil People", because God Wills It™.

And the result was genocide, and to plunge the advanced intellectualism of the Muslim world into a fundamentalist Dark Ages from which it has yet to fully emerge.

If this is starting to rumble through the evangelical/fundamentalist Christian Right, with populist puppet Trump in charge of the political right wing party, I'm genuinely afraid. How long before they pressure him and he's too stupid to realize (or simply doesn't care) that they're aiding his power only as long as he uses that power to get the ends they seek?

Remember: they want Armageddon. They idealize a Zionist-led Israel, believing also that it's the same Israel from antiquity, even though it is really a (justified, I think) political creation ex nihilo. They voted in both houses of Congress, and a Vice President who is an Evangelical hardliner. Trump has been quickly placing officers/cabinet members who are aligned with the most right-wing elements of the party and/or ideology. Trump controls the nuclear weapons. Trump sees the world in terms of "what is good for business". The USA has a long history of doing Really Shady Stuff™ on behalf of our corporations.

I think we're looking at flame crawl up a rope toward a barrel full of black sparkly powder.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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15-01-2017, 12:52 AM
RE: Deus vult?
Actually, the first Holy Crusade was a royal shit-show, and in more ways than you probably expect.




























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15-01-2017, 01:01 AM
RE: Deus vult?
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay not the point, EK.

"Deus Vult" was not a real rallying cry, at least not likely. It's that notion which sponsored the notion of Crusading in the first place. It was always an economic land/power grab. The question at hand is what sort of culture spawned an ability to launch such an enterprise in the first place-- and dozens of "aftershock" versions, as well.

And I think we're seeing a parallel in Deus Vult-type thinkers, who are the threat. Not the phrase, but the fact that they're dredging up a concept (or theological justification for a world outlook in Christian common volk, if you prefer) from the past which had dangerous consequences.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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15-01-2017, 01:08 AM (This post was last modified: 15-01-2017 03:15 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Deus vult?
(15-01-2017 01:01 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay not the point, EK.

Well, yeah. I stay on point about as well as a cat in a room full of laser pointers. This was the source that I remembered the term from, it's where I learned it, so that's where my mind went. Simple as that.

The first episode basically points out that the Crusade was a power play by Pope Urban II to get back at the Holy Roman Emperor and the Anti-Pope in Rome. He clearly was using people, and their faith, for his own personal and quite mundane agenda. Everything old is, indeed, new again.

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